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*Official* India Tour of England 2018
- Thread starter harsh.ag
- Start date
Out of interest, why should Stokes definitely be picked over Root?
He's done virtually nothing in T20I after all. His stats are pretty abysmal, and despite an amazing IPL the other year, his stats in T20 as a whole aren't really that impressive either. But hey, he hits a big ball so he's automatically more valuable than our countries' best batsman right?
Root should be given a fair run at a concrete position before we should even consider dropping him from the T20I team IMO. Today wasn't the best example, but he has to bat at 3 and has to be trusted to maintain a good strike rate as he generally does. Constantly changing his place in the batting order mustn't be good for his form. No way Hales should be batting above him in ODIs either, but that's another issue altogether.
This is the problem with some cricket fans. He’s our best batter in tests . That’s it. There are three formats. Anyone calling Root England’s beat batter in either limited overs format is talking out their backside.
If you have a favourite player that’s fine, but don’t talk nonsense about Root. To say he’s England’s best player in limited overs (or either limited overs format) isn’t even a subjective debate , it’s plain wrong.
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TheJediBrah
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Thinking that Root shouldn't be a certain starter for all formats is plain wrong
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Well I for one totally disagree with you John so I must be talking nonsense and out of my backside too.
I wont go as far as saying Joe Root is our best T20 batsmen (but seriously who gives a **** anyway?) But he is certainly in the conversation for ODI's......with only Bairstow as competition Imo (and I say that despite Buttlers ridiculous current form)
You need to understand Roots role in the odi side is very different to the rest of the line up. He hasnt got the license that the rest have, his job is to bat through and score big at a run a ball while the rest of the maniacs tee off at the other end.
Edit:
I really think you should adopt a less condescending tone when you're arguing an opinion and not state it is a fact.
I wont go as far as saying Joe Root is our best T20 batsmen (but seriously who gives a **** anyway?) But he is certainly in the conversation for ODI's......with only Bairstow as competition Imo (and I say that despite Buttlers ridiculous current form)
You need to understand Roots role in the odi side is very different to the rest of the line up. He hasnt got the license that the rest have, his job is to bat through and score big at a run a ball while the rest of the maniacs tee off at the other end.
Edit:
I really think you should adopt a less condescending tone when you're arguing an opinion and not state it is a fact.
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
Joe Root is a wonder ODI player, not just all his runs, but his handy bowling option as well. I don't see the value of dropping him in ODI to fit both Hales/Roy, I think Root adds more to an XI than playing both Hales and Roy.
1 Bairstow
2 Roy
3 Root 7
4 Morgan
5 Stokes 6
6 Buttler
7 Ali 5
8 Woakes 2
9 Willey 1
10 Plunkett 3
11 Rashid 4
Root provides far far too much value to the odi team to drop. He's an outstanding bat, good in the field, and bowls more than useful part-time.
Now I also believe that Jordan is back in the mix as the best for the T20i team. This effects team balance.
John's point re-t20i is a more interesting one though. As the case for including both Hales and Roy gets much stronger. Root was not sold at the IPL, Hales and Roy were. Doesn't prove anything, but it is indicative of a wider perception to their playing abilities. I personally would have bid on Joe Root at the bargain entry price.
Personally, I would stick with Root for the timebeing in t20i - Hales and Roy are both getting plenty of cricket at the moment to ready for the next WT20,
But what is Root's t20 role? We all get his odi role. England need to figure out what they want from Root in t20, and where best to bat him accordingly. Especially with Buttler opening now.
John's opinion re Root in t20 isn't as bad it sounds at first blush to many. As Buttler has moved up, Bairstow has moved down, Root is beginning to stick out like a sore thumb (and Morgan is the captain), batting ahead of Hales and Bairstow. Root is great for difficult pitches, and will do this role well at 3. But on flat decks, what is he good for? And does he have a problem with googlies? Because those are becoming very common in t20 teams, not just India.
The England t20 team do need to think of Root's t20 role in the playing XI. Because having Hales at 4 and Bairstow at 6 with Root at 3 playing anchor doesn't seem to make the most sense in t20. Root in T20 is in danger of becoming like JP Duminy, just not really fitting in all that often, but there in case of emergencies. But because of cricketers like D Miller, it made sense, but where do you bat them? Up top, you're giving less balls to the strikers, down low, they're not the best to 6's in the final overs.
Root needs to play with the same verve and vigour in t20 he showed at the WT20 to make a spot secure in the top 3. I think Root can do it. He has done it in the past. And he need only look KW in the IPL to see what's possible with batting talent in t20.
But Hales, Roy, Bairstow and Buttler with Morgan are definitely putting Root under some selection pressure.
1 Bairstow
2 Roy
3 Root 7
4 Morgan
5 Stokes 6
6 Buttler
7 Ali 5
8 Woakes 2
9 Willey 1
10 Plunkett 3
11 Rashid 4
Root provides far far too much value to the odi team to drop. He's an outstanding bat, good in the field, and bowls more than useful part-time.
Now I also believe that Jordan is back in the mix as the best for the T20i team. This effects team balance.
John's point re-t20i is a more interesting one though. As the case for including both Hales and Roy gets much stronger. Root was not sold at the IPL, Hales and Roy were. Doesn't prove anything, but it is indicative of a wider perception to their playing abilities. I personally would have bid on Joe Root at the bargain entry price.
Personally, I would stick with Root for the timebeing in t20i - Hales and Roy are both getting plenty of cricket at the moment to ready for the next WT20,
But what is Root's t20 role? We all get his odi role. England need to figure out what they want from Root in t20, and where best to bat him accordingly. Especially with Buttler opening now.
John's opinion re Root in t20 isn't as bad it sounds at first blush to many. As Buttler has moved up, Bairstow has moved down, Root is beginning to stick out like a sore thumb (and Morgan is the captain), batting ahead of Hales and Bairstow. Root is great for difficult pitches, and will do this role well at 3. But on flat decks, what is he good for? And does he have a problem with googlies? Because those are becoming very common in t20 teams, not just India.
The England t20 team do need to think of Root's t20 role in the playing XI. Because having Hales at 4 and Bairstow at 6 with Root at 3 playing anchor doesn't seem to make the most sense in t20. Root in T20 is in danger of becoming like JP Duminy, just not really fitting in all that often, but there in case of emergencies. But because of cricketers like D Miller, it made sense, but where do you bat them? Up top, you're giving less balls to the strikers, down low, they're not the best to 6's in the final overs.
Root needs to play with the same verve and vigour in t20 he showed at the WT20 to make a spot secure in the top 3. I think Root can do it. He has done it in the past. And he need only look KW in the IPL to see what's possible with batting talent in t20.
But Hales, Roy, Bairstow and Buttler with Morgan are definitely putting Root under some selection pressure.
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
How well is David Willey playing these days? He is really comming on strong now for England. Bowling out his overs. Bowling at the death too. His batting seems to be getting better. Just wonderful to watch a career develop and progress in this manner.
Wood looks the same ordinary sort he was 3 years ago. Yet Willey is starting to look like an international limited overs cricketer of some much better than average quality emerging.
Wood looks the same ordinary sort he was 3 years ago. Yet Willey is starting to look like an international limited overs cricketer of some much better than average quality emerging.
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TheJediBrah
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England and India 2 premier limited-overs sides in the world right now
Never thought I'd say this about a bilateral ODI series but it might even be too short. Why do bull**** series get 5-7 games and an actual good contest like this only end up with 3 games? I guess if the Tests are competitive too it will be worth it to have made room for 5.
Never thought I'd say this about a bilateral ODI series but it might even be too short. Why do bull**** series get 5-7 games and an actual good contest like this only end up with 3 games? I guess if the Tests are competitive too it will be worth it to have made room for 5.
How come no one's talking about Dhoni the Phony, what;s he done in the past 4 or 5 years in LO cricket? At least SRT was the leading run scorer for Ind in 2011 WC, does anyone think that Dhoni will lead the batting charts, batting avg or SR next year in England? We should've tried Pant or Kishan multiple times till now, Kohli & Shastri should seriously be hanged (metaphorically speaking) over this criminal offense!
Borges
International Regular
I'm ok with Dhoni being selected purely based on his limited overs wicket keeping abilities. Don't think any of the other candidates in the fray are keepers of an acceptable quality. May be keep him for ODIs; but try someone else for T20s to start with.
Dhoni is a bit like Kennedy's Paul Collingwood: did yeoman service for his team for some number of years, and then when it appears that it is clearly past the sell-by-date, does something every once in a blue moon to get an extended lease of life.
I agree that with his age, it is a huge risk betting on him to deliver the goods (or at least some of the goods) one year down the line.
Dhoni is a bit like Kennedy's Paul Collingwood: did yeoman service for his team for some number of years, and then when it appears that it is clearly past the sell-by-date, does something every once in a blue moon to get an extended lease of life.
I agree that with his age, it is a huge risk betting on him to deliver the goods (or at least some of the goods) one year down the line.
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
Well firstly this isn't all quite true. Karthik played 8 games last year as a specialist batsman, so it isn't like India didn't explore options already. Rahul is more than able to take the gloves effectively, too in a crisis. In fact, he used to look good enough for RCB when he kept for them. So India has versatility in recent and current players.
Which brings us to Pant's break out IPL performances. I watched some of them too. Fabulous hitting against good bowling on full size grounds. The kid has talent. I want to see him in internationals too to see if he's upto it. But Dhoni chalked up a fair IPL season himself. India will be playing a lot of games after England and before the WC squads are locked in, so I wouldn't fret so much just yet. But I suspect that VK and Dhoni see themselves as safeguards and want Dhawan, Rahul, Raina and Pandya to blast. I don't quite get what Rohit's role is, he either seems to score 200, or just not do much at all really. Still - having a player who can score 200 is a good enough reason to be in the selection argument.
So that is 3 accumulators in VK, MSD, and Sharma. We know Sharma if he goes big just typically keeps increases his SR too, so he doesn't clog up the later overs if still batting.
Dhawan, Rahul, Raina and H Pandya to dazzle. It seems fairly balanced if still a touch conservative compared to England, but India's best bowlers are not fantastic batsmen even if BK has made runs of late.
And get out of here with Kishan should have played by now -
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