Can Ashwin beat Murali's 800?

[trundler]

I apologize for bringing a tired argument but minnow bashing improves his average by quite a bit, as well as his SR.

The Dev comparison is a bit extreme considering the difference in SR despite Murali being a spinner. Kumble would be a better comparison. Even if you don't rate Murali, no way is he less than second best after Warne.

 

[Burgey]

It’s not that I don’t rate him, it’s more that he was just innocuous against the best side of his era. There are bowlers who, as a supporter genuinely cause fear when they’re playing your team. He never did that against us. His record is remarkable, no doubt. But he just consistently did sfa against Australia and I happily concede that effects how I rate him.

 

[trundler]

Fair enough and I have Warne ahead of him too. The Dev comparison ticked me off a bit. Speaking of Australian and Murali, Ponting has one of the better records against Murali across both formats.

 

[Borges]

Lol if Murali played for Australia he'd be lucky to average under 30

Right. So let me follow suit: assess spin bowlers based on how they played in my backyard or against against my country (we did have some of the best players of spin bowling), and then form a hypothesis about how they would have played had they played for my country. That should certainly tell me how good these guys really were.

Starting with a small sample size of three:

Warne vs India 14 matches, 43 wickets @47.18, SR 91.2, WPM 3.1
Warne in India 9 matches, 34 wickets @43.11, SR 81.0, WPM 3.8


Murali vs India 22 matches, 105 wickets @32.61, SR 66.8, WPM 4.8
Murali in India 11 matches, 40 wickets @45.45, SR 86.2, WPM 3.6


Lyon vs India 14 matches, 64 wickets @33.31, SR 57.2, WPM 4.6
Lyon in India 7 matches, 34 wickets @30.58, SR 51.7, WPM 4.9

I see that I have reached the inescapable conclusion that, overall, Lyon was a far better spin bowler than either of the two overrated palookas Warne and Murali.


.

 

[Daemon]

But once you adjust for looks, Lyon's average balloons to 60

 

[Black_Warrior]

It’s not that I don’t rate him, it’s more that he was just innocuous against the best side of his era. There are bowlers who, as a supporter genuinely cause fear when they’re playing your team. He never did that against us. His record is remarkable, no doubt. But he just consistently did sfa against Australia and I happily concede that effects how I rate him.

He took a lot of wickets against Australia in Sri Lanka. He actually took more wickets than Warne in the 2004 series in the same conditions, against a superior batting line up. It wasn't in Australia so it didn't happen.

 

[Burgey]

I’ve already said to you i happily admit my opinion on him is in no small part based on the way he performed here. In light of that I don’t really see the need for your snark.

And tbh, even if that weren’t the case you can probably cop a bit of it back to make up for the hundreds of “yeah but how did X go on the SC?”
bullshit we’ve had to endure on here.

 

[Burgey]

Just had a scan at his figures in that series, and whilst he took a lot of wickets, if your leading bowler’s hauls are things like 5/120 and 5/150 then he isn’t hurting the opposition. He certainly did in the test where he took 5/60 odd, mind.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Right. So let me follow suit: assess spin bowlers based on how they played in my backyard or against against my country (we did have some of the best players of spin bowling), and then form a hypothesis about how they would have played had they played for my country. That should certainly tell me how good these guys really were.

Starting with a small sample size of three:

Warne vs India 14 matches, 43 wickets @47.18, SR 91.2, WPM 3.1
Warne in India 9 matches, 34 wickets @43.11, SR 81.0, WPM 3.8


Murali vs India 22 matches, 105 wickets @32.61, SR 66.8, WPM 4.8
Murali in India 11 matches, 40 wickets @45.45, SR 86.2, WPM 3.6


Lyon vs India 14 matches, 64 wickets @33.31, SR 57.2, WPM 4.6
Lyon in India 7 matches, 34 wickets @30.58, SR 51.7, WPM 4.9

I see that I have reached the inescapable conclusion that, overall, Lyon was a far better spin bowler than either of the two overrated palookas Warne and Murali.


.

No arguments here. If Warne was Indian he'd probably never get a game because he was **** in India

He took a lot of wickets against Australia in Sri Lanka. He actually took more wickets than Warne in the 2004 series in the same conditions, against a superior batting line up. It wasn't in Australia so it didn't happen.

lol yeah he took a lot of wickets because he bowled almost half the overs and no one else took any. It's not like he was taking 5/30 and winning games.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Just had a scan at his figures in that series, and whilst he took a lot of wickets, if your leading bowler’s hauls are things like 5/120 and 5/150 then he isn’t hurting the opposition. He certainly did in the test where he took 5/60 odd, mind.

Yeah his team lost 0-3 and were utterly dominated. He was basically carrying the bowling and being the only resistance. Given the overs he bowled, those figures are inevitable.

 

[Burgey]

So he was basically the Jason Krezja of that 2004 series. Good on him.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Murali's got Krejza covered. When it comes to off-spinners this century it looks a little something like:


- Saqlain
- Hauritz
- Ajmal
- Murali
- Krejza
- Narine
- Marlon Samuels
- Aravinda de Silva
everyone else
- Lyon


edit: **** I forgot Ramesh Powar

 

[OverratedSanity]

I prefer murali because he's a nice bloke. **** Warne.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also it can't be stressed enough how much of an embarrassment Warne was against India. Murali at least won marches against India at home. Warne got spanked whether it was Sydney or Mumbai.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If you think Warne against India was an embarrassment you should see him on reality tv show trying to interact with other human beings

 

[Borges]

No arguments here. If Warne was Indian he'd probably never get a game because he was **** in India.

If Warne was Indian, he would have played a lot of games for India.
He was inept only against the better players of spin bowling of his time (whether in India or elsewhere); he wouldn't have had to bowl to so many of them if he played for India.

 

[OverratedSanity]

If Warne was Indian, he would have played a lot of games for India.
He was inept only against the better players of spin bowling of his time (whether in India or elsewhere); he wouldn't have had to bowl to so many of them if he played for India.

He's have been clobbered in the ranji and probably wouldn't gave even made the team ahead of kumble.

 

[Burgey]

I prefer murali because he's a nice bloke. **** Warne.

This is a given.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He's have been clobbered in the ranji and probably wouldn't gave even made the team ahead of kumble.

He probably wouldn't have survived the food. I remember hearing that he had to bring his own food and live off toasted sandwiches when touring the subcontinent.

 

[Burgey]

Krezja has them all covered in one particular area. In fact, he probably has them cumulatively covered