***Official*** Australia in South Africa 2018

[Gnske]

If you had have told me six months ago that:

Smith would be banned
Paine would be captain
M Marsh would be vice captain and one of our most consistent batsmen
Cummins would play 10 consecutive tests; and
Australia would be caught blatantly ball tampering

I'd have looked at you like you were a blithering idiot.

It has the same feeling as 2016.

I know right.

I don't think I've fully realised yet just how much this tour has gone from sh*t to f**king **** in such a disastrous manner. A month ago I would have thought England's last two Ashes campaigns in Australia were pretty good trainwrecks.

 

[Bolo]

Morne was outstanding in the match - probably the best I have seen him bowl in a long time. Make no mistake, the issue or not, most batsmen would have struggled against his spell in the second innings. Although he got a bit carried away by the trampoline effect towards the end.

And to be fair, Morne really came to his own only in the last 3-4 years, more precisely under Amla, then De Villiers and thereafter under Du Plessis. Du Plessis in my opinion got the best out of him. Another reason for his under-rating could be his largely average performances against the two most media-influential cricketing nations, Eng and Aus.

Is this the same Du Plessis who got burned for ball tampering twice as captain? I wonder if there is any correlation? ?

Sorry, couldn't resist that given the context. Faf is a much better captain than anyone else Morne played under.

 

[StephenZA]

Is this the same Du Plessis who got burned for ball tampering twice as captain? I wonder if there is any correlation? 

Sorry, couldn't resist that given the context. Faf is a much better captain than anyone else Morne played under.

Morne did play under that guy called Smith right?

 

[Heboric]

Come on Johannesburg the fourth test is going to be mostly played over weekend and public holidays (4 out of the 5 days ). Plus it could be history in the making.

No excuses for poor crowds. Dont want to see just Mr Van Der Merwe en Wagter die hond

 

[Bolo]

Morne did play under that guy called Smith right?

Smith was tactically awful as a captain, and his record reflects this.

He was dislikable in the public eye. It's hard to say how he was with the team itself. He is heavily praised by a few players, but this is true of all captains, and the ones praising him are part of the clique culture that some say damaged the side behind the scenes.

 

[StephenZA]

Smith was tactically awful as a captain, and his record reflects this.

He was dislikable in the public eye. It's hard to say how he was with the team itself. He is heavily praised by a few players, but this is true of all captains, and the ones praising him are part of the clique culture that some say damaged the side behind the scenes.

Well you and I have a very different definition of how good a captain he was... most people I know and hear acknowledge he was a great captain. He helped pull us out of one of the most dire circumstances cricket in SA had ever had. And after he retired (earlier than expected) we were left with a gaping whole in our leadership that took over 2 years to full. ...Nah, he was a good captain, if maybe a little conservative at time. But that is more a SA thing than a player specific thing.

 

[stephen]

I know right.

I don't think I've fully realised yet just how much this tour has gone from sh*t to f**king **** in such a disastrous manner. A month ago I would have thought England's last two Ashes campaigns in Australia were pretty good trainwrecks.

This is somehow much worse.

England were just bad at cricket. Here we've cheated when we didn't need to.

 

[Bolo]

Well you and I have a very different definition of how good a captain he was... most people I know and hear acknowledge he was a great captain. He helped pull us out of one of the most dire circumstances cricket in SA had ever had. And after he retired (earlier than expected) we were left with a gaping whole in our leadership that took over 2 years to full. ...Nah, he was a good captain, if maybe a little conservative at time. But that is more a SA thing than a player specific thing.

A good captain helps you win games. Smith was worse at this than any captain (who played a fair number) we've had since Wessels, who had a weak team that had never seen international cricket anyway.

Assuming you are talking about Hansie as our most dire circumstances, cos those were our darkest days. Smith didn't pull us through that. Pollock did. He captained for a couple of years before Smith took over, and managed to win nearly twice as much as Smith did despite the circumstances.

The fact that we had a leadership void after Smith doesn't mean Smith was a good captain, it means we had a lack of good captains in the team. The problem was compounded by Smith's unexpected sudden retirement. A good captain would take the time to groom a suitable replacement, not just vanish without warning and leave his team with a leadership quandary. Not giving notice of retirement is putting self before team, which is not how a captain is meant to act.

 

[Heboric]

A good captain helps you win games. Smith was worse at this than any captain (who played a fair number) we've had since Wessels, who had a weak team that had never seen international cricket anyway.

 

[SeamUp]

Smith had to learn on the job. He may have been not so good at certain moments but he was a deep thinker of the game (stories told about him sitting with WP seniors and asking them to dinner when a freshed faced 19 year-old because he always wanted to learn).

Once he got through that unbelievably tough period he was the one making tactical calls for a change in thinking with Mickey Arthur to go with strike-bowlers. He also didn't have the luxury of an attacking spinner but eeeked out every bit of ability Paul Harris had to contribute to a successful team.

Then you add his ability to lead from the front and win games chasing in the last innings I don't think you could have asked more. Our competitveness on the sub-continent. 2 test series wins in England and Australia each. Good wins in New Zealand.

He was a colossus of a leader considering where he had to start from and the pressure he had to carry from so young.

 

[Bolo]

Since Wessels the permanent captains have been Cronje, Pollock, Smith, Faf. Lowest win percentage of this group was Smith. There have been a number of others who captained for a (few) match(es). No idea on their records, but they didn't have the job for long enough to be relevant in discussion.

Smith is not a superior captain by virtue of having captained for longer and having won more matches. Win percentage is the only meaningful metric.

 

[StephenZA]

Since Wessels the permanent captains have been Cronje, Pollock, Smith, Faf. Lowest win percentage of this group was Smith. There have been a number of others who captained for a (few) match(es). No idea on their records, but they didn't have the job for long enough to be relevant in discussion.

Smith is not a superior captain by virtue of having captained for longer and having won more matches. Win percentage is the only meaningful metric.

Context is needed as well... Pollock still captained under the Hansie shadow for those few year and that culminated in that terrible WC in SA, and a team that was falling apart. It was not until Smith and Arthur came together and rebuilt the SA test team, with the help of some great players, that SA cricket improved again to even greater heights... Smiths leadership in this rebuild was paramount and gave SA a team that became dominant for years. He was a great leader that inspired his troops and led from the front.

 

[Spark]

A good captain helps you win games. Smith was worse at this than any captain (who played a fair number) we've had since Wessels, who had a weak team that had never seen international cricket anyway.

Assuming you are talking about Hansie as our most dire circumstances, cos those were our darkest days. Smith didn't pull us through that. Pollock did. He captained for a couple of years before Smith took over, and managed to win nearly twice as much as Smith did despite the circumstances.

The fact that we had a leadership void after Smith doesn't mean Smith was a good captain, it means we had a lack of good captains in the team. The problem was compounded by Smith's unexpected sudden retirement. A good captain would take the time to groom a suitable replacement, not just vanish without warning and leave his team with a leadership quandary. Not giving notice of retirement is putting self before team, which is not how a captain is meant to act.

A great captain wins you games full stop, which is what Smith did.

 

[Gnske]

A great captain wins you games full stop, which is what Smith did.

A great captain maybe, but a f*cking sh*thouse leader. Basically the opposite of Hitler

 

[StephenZA]

I wonder right now if Aus are still happy to have a 4 match series... can still get a drawn series if they can pull one out of the bag, or the players and management would just lie to go home?

 

[Victor Ian]

I wonder right now if Aus are still happy to have a 4 match series... can still get a drawn series if they can pull one out of the bag, or the players and management would just lie to go home?

Likewise South Africa. They could be celebrating a home series against Australia but now the chips are down so far for Australia that an almighty choke is still on the tables. How long do we have for this to dwell on their minds before the next test.

 

[StephenZA]

Likewise South Africa. They could be celebrating a home series against Australia but now the chips are down so far for Australia that an almighty choke is still on the tables. How long do we have for this to dwell on their minds before the next test.

I think SA are alright with it.... going to one of their favourite grounds, chance to give Aus a 3-1 drubbing, winning first series in SA against Aus etc etc lots of motivation to win this test.

 

[Marius]

Come on Johannesburg the fourth test is going to be mostly played over weekend and public holidays (4 out of the 5 days ). Plus it could be history in the making.

No excuses for poor crowds. Dont want to see just Mr Van Der Merwe en Wagter die hond

I've done my bit, just bought 21 tickets for Friday.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I've done my bit, just bought 21 tickets for Friday.

No booing the Aussies, they are poor little lambs who can't take it.

 

[cnerd123]

I've done my bit, just bought 21 tickets for Friday.

Yea but how many rolls of yellow sticky tape did you buy