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Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

Spark

Global Moderator
Personally I couldn't see how diuretics could improve Warne's performance. Whereas altering the ball was an attempt to restrict the last innings target to win this test leaving no chance of losing the series and every chance of winning it. I think this is worse.
They wouldn't, they would just let him take other substances that would improve his performance without being detected. So since the very act of taking them makes it impossible to determine whether you're taking true PEDs, legally and morally they should be treated equivalently.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
They wouldn't, they would just let him take other substances that would improve his performance without being detected. So since the very act of taking them makes it impossible to determine whether you're taking true PEDs, legally and morally they should be treated equivalently.
Beaten for pace
 

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
You would not like how much chatter is out there in the Aus public atm on these lines. I wouldn't call it the majority view yet, but far from fringe either.
I feel like its not about 'ball tampering' any more or the consequences attached to it. General public reading the headlines will feel like these guys cheated at national level representing their country thus the extreme backlash maybe
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
I feel like its not about 'ball tampering' any more or the consequences attached to it. General public reading the headlines will feel like these guys cheated at national level representing their country thus the extreme backlash maybe
It's sort of like the Patriots inflated balls scandal.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I feel like its not about 'ball tampering' any more or the consequences attached to it. General public reading the headlines will feel like these guys cheated at national level representing their country thus the extreme backlash maybe
This is exactly it. Australians above all want a good, fair contest. Cheating is what losers do and the national cricket team aren't losers, not even in the 80s nadir. Not until now.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
They wouldn't, they would just let him take other substances that would improve his performance without being detected. So since the very act of taking them makes it impossible to determine whether you're taking true PEDs, legally and morally they should be treated equivalently.
That's true, but none of the drugs it could mask would enhance a leg spinner's performance either. A uniform list of substances for all sports may not necessarily explain why they need to be banned for an individual game like cricket. Plus warne is vain and that was always the most likely reason he took it.
 

Larwood's_boots

U19 Debutant
That's true, but none of the drugs it could mask would enhance a leg spinner's performance either. A uniform list of substances for all sports may not necessarily explain why they need to be banned for an individual game like cricket. Plus warne is vain and that was always the most likely reason he took it.
Couldn’t it strengthen your shoulder? That’d help with longevity surely.
 

Larwood's_boots

U19 Debutant
That's true, but none of the drugs it could mask would enhance a leg spinner's performance either. A uniform list of substances for all sports may not necessarily explain why they need to be banned for an individual game like cricket. Plus warne is vain and that was always the most likely reason he took it.
At one point I remember chess was trying to get some kind of international recognition or something and had to incorporate drug testing as a formality. There was a Ukrainian player who was furious after losing a match on a blunder and refused to take the test out of anger. Wound up with like a two year suspension or something :laugh: :laugh: for chess!
 

cnerd123

likes this
That much of the media overreaction was based on the popular myth that Australian cricket in its successful period was particularly exemplary in anything other than winning a lot. A lot of the shock/anger in the wider public is based on the idea that this team has betrayed the principles upheld by the noble forebears, but that really isn't true. People have simply found ways to rationalise away those dubious episodes because they wanted to, and they haven't hear because they don't, which is why manifestly worse offences - doping violations and exposing the game to potential match fixing influence and corruption - are excused. You unwittingly said it yourself: part of the reason people cared about less was because of who they were, i.e. members of an extremely successful side, whereas this side has been patchy at best for a decade now.

There's a reason the reaction on CW is milder. I would suggest it's because no one here really believed in this myth in the first place (although I would contend that they were uniquely or overly bad in that respect).
The best thing about this for me atleast is that it shows me once and for all that this was a myth that people in Australia actually bought into.

The smart fans here on CW never actually believed their team were these great role models (well, maybe Red Hill the exception, with his 'Aussies are the least-cheating team' post that sparked OS digging up all the **** they did). It would just be cheeky banter. There have been Aussies who genuinely seem to hold that belief, but they basically posted like trolls so I still thought they were the exception. But this outrage and calls for life bans shows me that a good chunk of the Aussie cricket fanbase actually believed it. And it's incredible how much they're willing to preserve that image - "We're the great cricket bastion of the world, we can't be seen with a cheat in the team, ban him for life!' It's like they've just realised that their team plays dirty. Like they actually believed they were never wrong in every other controversy before, and that the other teams were just jealous of them, or where complaining whingers, or they were the ones who 'crossed the line'. And now their captain has been caught red handed. And that cannot be had. They must be the moral leaders of world cricket. They must oust him.

It's fantastic.
 

cnerd123

likes this
That's true, but none of the drugs it could mask would enhance a leg spinner's performance either. A uniform list of substances for all sports may not necessarily explain why they need to be banned for an individual game like cricket. Plus warne is vain and that was always the most likely reason he took it.
Where do you get the information on what substances that diuretic can or cannot mask?

Genuinely curious. I would imagine it would take a lot of research by someone well versed in the field to know what a certain diuretic is capable of masking. And to my understanding, all it does is make you pee more and help flush out your system quicker, helping you get rid of any drugs in your system faster than they would naturally. But I'm not an expert on this.
 

TheJediBrah

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Couldn’t it strengthen your shoulder? That’d help with longevity surely.
If he was using some form of anabolic steroid it could potentially help recovery but I really don't see how any banned substances could help Warne's cricketing performance. If he did take anything it would be something like clenbuterol for weight loss, for purely aesthetic reasons. Not really cricket related.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Like I said earlier on though, intent is extremely difficult to prove, so it should be pretty much ignored in cases like those.
 

Larwood's_boots

U19 Debutant
If he was using some form of anabolic steroid it could potentially help recovery but I really don't see how any banned substances could help Warne's cricketing performance. If he did take anything it would be something like clenbuterol for weight loss, for purely aesthetic reasons. Not really cricket related.
I’m pretty much 100% with you that it was just the antics of a vain moron trying to look good for the hairy backed sheilas- but you can’t know that so you have to go by the book in my opinion. Even if it’s takihg drugs to extend the career that’s still clearly not a level playing field.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
The Aussies asked for the stump microphones to be turned down. Next series they're going to get all the cameras turned off
 

cnerd123

likes this
If he was using some form of anabolic steroid it could potentially help recovery but I really don't see how any banned substances could help Warne's cricketing performance. If he did take anything it would be something like clenbuterol for weight loss, for purely aesthetic reasons. Not really cricket related.
Wasn't he struggling with an injury/fitness concerns at the same time? Like, the losing weight was a response to that was it not? It wasn't purely aesthetics.

In any case, you can't put yourself in a position to punish based on intent. How are you going to judge anyone's intent? We aren't mind readers. We have rules in place, Warne is a professional athlete who agreed to play under that set of rules, the coaching/administrative staff of CA knew what the rules were, so if he's caught breaking them he deserves to be punished. Either he had bad intent, or he was ignorant. Both deserved to punished just as strictly when you get to his level.

To quote a prominent cricketer

"The rules are in place for a reason, if you're not gonna use them, then why bother having them?"

:ph34r:
 

Second Spitter

State Vice-Captain
Couldn’t it strengthen your shoulder? That’d help with longevity surely.
Warne was injured and made miraculous comeback from a shoulder injury that would have kept him out for months. It also coincided with a period where every Major League baseballer was dabbling in HGH and steroids.

e.g. Andy Pettite made the admission that he used HGH to recover from an injury around the same time.
Pettitte admits using HGH to recover from an elbow injury in 2002
 
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