***Official*** England in New Zealand 2018

[Prince EWS]

Mixed and unclear criteria so I can't really argue with you.. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[straw man]

Van Beek and Jamieson have leapfrogged Wheeler and Bennett by the looks of things (Bennett's injured but they don't seem to like him anyway). Nuttall should also be around there somewhere though has had injury problems lately. Ditto for Clarkson. The sides named for the two-dayers aren't strict A-sides anyway - Nathan Smith made one of them as more of an 'emerging player' (sponsored by Kippax).

Mark Craig probably still rated amongst the spinners too, now that he's fit again and having a decent season - perhaps above Ajaz, not sure. Neesham should also be in at least the B side over Devcich

I'm going to hope they don't believe Worker is the batting cover in test cricket - being named in a mere two-dayer doesn't necessarily prove that they do, imo. They might just see it as giving him more international exposure with half an eye to the ODI opener spot, for which he makes a better case.

With Watling still returning from injury, if Taylor is out then I think they'd give Blundell the gloves and Watling would play as a batsman. If they didn't, I would be really interested to see who they think is the next best batsman as reserve.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm going to hope they don't believe Worker is the batting cover in test cricket - being named in a mere two-dayer doesn't necessarily prove that they do, imo.

What about when they actually named him as batting cover in Test cricket?

George Worker joins Blackcaps squad for first Test against West Indies | Newshub

 

[Athlai]

What about when they actually named him as batting cover in Test cricket?

George Worker joins Blackcaps squad for first Test against West Indies | Newshub

Still doesn’t prove it.

 

[Prince EWS]

lol.

 

[straw man]

if I don't read it then imo it continues to be not true

 

[Prince EWS]

It's going to be fun when you don't read him into batting #4 in a Test.

 

[straw man]

la la la can't hear you

 

[straw man]

just wait until Worker walks out at number four in the first test, blasts a quick hundred and then rips off his mask to reveal it was Jesse Ryder from 2008 all along

 

[Kippax]

The sides named for the two-dayers aren't strict A-sides anyway - Nathan Smith made one of them as more of an 'emerging player' (sponsored by Kippax).

Haha, certainly not my doing. He hasn't really bowled an outswinger or any balls over 130kph since 2016. We extended that invitation for him to team up with Ravindra, Sears and his Hutt Hawks friends in Wellington, but it's been mostly downhill for him since.

Anyway, an Otago bits-and-pieces player (Hesson's type), plus a short and accurate medium-pacer who rarely swings it, known for his try-hard conscientiousness with the bat (Larsen's type). He was always going to be in line for a selection leg-up, when I think about it.

 

[NZTailender]

So what's the depth looking like for NZ? Here's my crack at the top four XIs (based on maintaining the rough structure, and taking into consideration the way selectors seem to be rating certain players)

New Zealand	New Zealand 'A'	New Zealand 'B'	New Zealand 'C'
Tom Latham Jeet Raval Kane Williamson * Ross Taylor Henry Nicholls Colin de Grandhomme BJ Watling + Mitchell Santner Tim Southee Neil Wagner Trent Boult	Greg Hay Martin Guptill * Will Young Mark Chapman Tom Bruce Glenn Phillips Tom Blundell + Scott Kuggelijn Ish Sodhi Matt Henry Lockie Ferguson	Michael Guptill-Bunce Hamish Rutherford Bharat Popli Anton Devcich George Worker Corey Anderson * Tim Seifert + Doug Bracewell Todd Astle Ben Wheeler Hamish Bennett	Michael Papps Henry Cooper Daniel Flynn * Dean Brownlie Daryl Mitchell Jimmy Neesham Dane Cleaver + Logan van Beek Kyle Jamieson Ajaz Patel Jimmy Baker

Filling in the batting was definitely a struggle - literally clutching at straws and slotting in literally anybody I could think of by the third XI.

Anyway, my key point here is #Baker4BCs

Ben Smiths stocks have fallen a long long way. Ditto (M) Bracewell (not that they were that high to begin with).

 

[NZTailender]

but they went nzs way because of clutch performances. if you remove the best performances from a team on any given day they tend to lose...

NZ rely heavily on a few players atm yes, but that doesn't mean those performances should get discounted when nz win. this 4-1 thing is just weird wrist slitting for the sake of it. i'd rather talk about how **** southee and the fifth bowling option is, because it's an even worse situation than the latham/chapman/nicholls/CdG disappearing act that has happened when taylor/kane fail or are injured.

Having players who can pull off clutch performances to get us -/+ 2 of the total is great and all, but it means we're competitive at times. England can be dominant with their line up - we can't.

 

[straw man]

Haha, certainly not my doing. He hasn't really bowled an outswinger or any balls over 130kph since 2016. We extended that invitation for him to team up with Ravindra, Sears and his Hutt Hawks friends in Wellington, but it's been mostly downhill for him since.

Anyway, an Otago bits-and-pieces player (Hesson's type), plus a short and accurate medium-pacer who rarely swings it, known for his try-hard conscientiousness with the bat (Larsen's type). He was always going to be in line for a selection leg-up, when I think about it.

Boo, bring back outswing please.

 

[Flem274*]

only gavin larsen could look at the CD batting line up and say 'george worker is the backbone of that powerful top six'. tbh if taylor were to rejoin the CD side then worker would have to open or not play. hay, worker, young, taylor, ryder, bruce defs are the best 6 in the CD area.

worker has really improved his output when he bats in the middle order nowadays and is our second best regular one day batsman behind tom bruce, but he's still got a bit further to go before being considered for tests. clearly they see something in him they don't see in bruce, young or hay and good on them.

Haha, certainly not my doing. He hasn't really bowled an outswinger or any balls over 130kph since 2016. We extended that invitation for him to team up with Ravindra, Sears and his Hutt Hawks friends in Wellington, but it's been mostly downhill for him since.

Anyway, an Otago bits-and-pieces player (Hesson's type), plus a short and accurate medium-pacer who rarely swings it, known for his try-hard conscientiousness with the bat (Larsen's type). He was always going to be in line for a selection leg-up, when I think about it.

oh no what happened? he looked every inch a future black cap at under 19 level

 

[Kippax]

oh no what happened? he looked every inch a future black cap at under 19 level

I don't know, BFP did say he'd heard word in Otago circles tipping Smith's batting to quickly become his dominant suit a la Sam Wells, I think.

It might just have been one of those Ashton Turner deals, where our early U19 sightings weren't indicative of what he usually produces. Maybe before they both started pro gym sessions, consequently lost some of their lithe teen factor.

 

[Kippax]

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Good to see Watling back and will be interesting to see how Astle goes in the test matches (Santner injured after his improvements in ODI batting). No cover named for Taylor which is encouraging

 

[thierry henry]

I'm interested in theories as to why Ish Sodhi is so resoundingly popular among "casuals". Like every Veitchy follower and RadioSport listener would have him over Astle and probably Santner, yet he really hasn't done that much and hasn't come close to actually earning re-selection in red ball cricket. Purely in terms of bowling style is he even that much more aesthetically pleasing or "talented looking" than Astle? He is seen as someone who really rips it but...does he, really?

 

[Athlai]

I'm interested in theories as to why Ish Sodhi is so resoundingly popular among "casuals". Like every Veitchy follower and RadioSport listener would have him over Astle and probably Santner, yet he really hasn't done that much and hasn't come close to actually earning re-selection in red ball cricket. Purely in terms of bowling style is he even that much more aesthetically pleasing or "talented looking" than Astle? He is seen as someone who really rips it but...does he, really?

No one takes as aesthetically pleasing wickets as sodhi. And that's entirely it imo

 

[The Hutt Rec]

It’s not as black and white in red ball cricket, imo. Sodhi has plenty to recommend him.

This season in the Plunket Shield Astle has only bowled 12 balls, but has one wicket at 4. Is he underdone? Sodhi has 9 wickets at 25.55.

Last season Astle took 31 wickets at 26.48, Sodhi 40 at 25.92.

New Zealand A vs India A last year, Astle 2 at 27.5, Sodhi 8 at 26.8 (Astle injured and only played the first game, I think?).

Astle has the big advantage with his batting, of course.