***Official*** Australia in South Africa 2018

[Second Spitter]

It stretches incredulity a bit to believe that Sarwan did not know. McGrath missed the first two tests because of it and the story was plastered everywhere.

Glenn McGrath to return to West Indies, subject to Jane McGrath's health | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

Even if you he knew, it's not like Sarwan said "ha ha your wife has cancer"

Moreover, I have first hand information about something McGrath did while his wife was in her final months, which nullifies any possibility of a shred sympathy towards him.

 

[Spark]

Even if you he knew, it's not like Sarwan said "ha ha your wife has cancer"

Moreover, I have first hand information about something McGrath did while his wife was in her final months, which nullifies any possibility of a shred sympathy towards him.

That must have been such a weight off your shoulders, no longer having to weigh your conscience down with such a terrible burden of sympathising with him.

 

[Victor Ian]

If only they had Smith there (the Big South African one) to biffo the agro midget into the ground when he gets mouthy. I like sledging so long as it stays within the bounds of humorous banter. The 'line' for sledging is that it should be quite acceptable for Stump mic to pick it up. If you wouldn't say it in front of the tv audience, don't say it. I hope Warner looks back with shame.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Look, my eyes told me starc was effective when the ball was swinging and not effective when it was not. I had no idea what the stats were. You posted some stats that supported this view so I commented on it.

I didn't post any stats that supported that view, someone else did. I went searching and found that it wasn't actually the case at all. The stats don't support that view. Where those original stats came from or how they were misinterpreted, I don't know.

You are also posting stats (which I did miss) for a different set of bowlers for different batting positions. You can prove anything you like through selective statistics like this. How about we don't quibble over a couple of % on stats like this, particularly since he is early career and his stats will change.

They weren't selective statistics, I just chose the other bowlers that were playing this Test and 2 others that were mentioned earlier. I literally just picked the first 5 or 6 bowlers that seemed relevant and none of them had a significantly higher percentage of middle-order wickets than Starc. This is not a case of manipulating data to suit a point of view. It's posting the only relevant data, which shows that the original point of view you and others posited had no basis in fact or reality.

If we work with what we are seeing, I think we can agree that Starc is good with a swinging ball and worse with a ball that isn't swinging, and that the difference is more pronounced in him than bowlers with some combination of:

1.bowling seam in addition to or instead of swing
2 possessing a greater degree of variation, and
3. simply bowling a tighter line and length to nag a wicket and hold up an end until the ball starts to move.

That's the obvious conclusion to make from watching him bowl, but whether it is actually true to any extent is very questionable

Interesting stat on Steyn BTW. His middle order numbers being higher than Hazelwood and Philander don't surprise too much as they are mostly new ball bowlers, but I would not have expected him to have a higher % of middle order wickets than McGrath and Morkel. The percentage difference is too low to read anything into it, but it's interesting.

I don't really see how it's interesting at all, his numbers aren't significantly higher as you said. It's literally 1% higher. That's like 1 or 2 extra wickets than, say, Starc in his entire career. Relatively speaking.

 

[Victor Ian]

Even if you he knew, it's not like Sarwan said "ha ha your wife has cancer"

Moreover, I have first hand information about something McGrath did while his wife was in her final months, which nullifies any possibility of a shred sympathy towards him.

Yeah. That is a bit ******. (Someone else did similar a while back on Warner's wife).

Don't air gossip. You DON'T have first hand information. You have gossip which you are itching to spread and all you do is dirty someone's name when you know absolutely nothing except gossip. It is a ****** trait to talk about people's private lives when it does not affect you personally.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If u write even one more post against Australian player, I will accuse u of
a) Promoting racism against Australia on CW
b) Being jealous of Australian success

Nah even us Australians aren't going to disagree with that one. Calling Warner an odious little diminutive ogre with a Napolean complex is just stating a fact.

 

[Prince EWS]

You DON'T have first hand information. You have gossip which you are itching to spread and all you do is dirty someone's name when you know absolutely nothing except gossip. It is a ****** trait to talk about people's private lives when it does not affect you personally.

Haha, how the **** do you know though? He quite easily could have first hand information that did affect him personally.

 

[Victor Ian]

Haha, how the **** do you know though? He quite easily could have first hand information that did affect him personally.

Possibly. We are not the ones who need to be informed though, so it is still gossip. I'll get of my high and mighty horse though.

 

[quincywagstaff]

As unappealing as some of the incidents in the 1st Test have been, they have helped the Test match dominate the headlines in Australia. They should ensure TV ratings (which were already very high for the 1st Test) and general interest go up a level for Friday's Test.

Looks like there'll be no punishments for QDK or Warner from their various incidents; in a funny sort of way Warner's confrontation with QDK seems to have made everybody forget about his antagonistic behaviour towards Markham after the ABDV runout, which was a fair bit worse than Lyon's behaviour imo.

Yeah I don’t know what got into Lyon there. Was a bit ordinary

Notwithstanding that I don't think Lyon should've been fined/penalised for it, I just reckon the success and adulation he's gotten in the past 12 months or so has gone to his head a bit. I guess the self-belief he's developed in his bowling has led to a level of ****iness that was apparent even before this incident.

People only say stuff should stay on the field when it's convenient to them. Like when Brad Haddin cheated by clean bowling neil Broom, and Vettori rightly called him a cheat. And with no self awareness, Haddin went to the media and aired his greivances about Vettori saying Vettori shouldn't have aired his greivances about Haddin to the media.

That took some nerve by Haddin to portray himself as the victim in that incident and even suggest Vettori should be the one apologising!?!?

 

[Bolo]

SA were 4/45 in the second dig. Not exactly showering themselves in glory for a chase.

QDK (potentially) getting back into form should be a serious highlight though. He was a real burden during the Indian series

I didn't post any stats that supported that view, someone else did. I went searching and found that it wasn't actually the case at all. The stats don't support that view. Where those original stats came from or how they were misinterpreted, I don't know.



They weren't selective statistics, I just chose the other bowlers that were playing this Test and 2 others that were mentioned earlier. I literally just picked the first 5 or 6 bowlers that seemed relevant and none of them had a significantly higher percentage of middle-order wickets than Starc. This is not a case of manipulating data to suit a point of view. It's posting the only relevant data, which shows that the original point of view you and others posited had no basis in fact or reality.



That's the obvious conclusion to make from watching him bowl, but whether it is actually true to any extent is very questionable



I don't really see how it's interesting at all, his numbers aren't significantly higher as you said. It's literally 1% higher. That's like 1 or 2 extra wickets than, say, Starc in his entire career. Relatively speaking.

Oops, thought the stats I replied to were from you.

There's always a bias of some sort, whether or not it was intended. My selection bias in the op (intentionally) was choosing bats 3-6. Yours was choosing 4-7, and more particularly which bowlers you have selected.

You've picked the a bowler from each side known to be threats upfront and containing but not incisive in the middle plus Morkel.

You've left out kg, the best middle overs bowler from RSA (44.4% 4-7 wickets). Plus Cummins, the best from AUS (41.3%). Plus Marsh (57.6%). Starc does not look too good against the middle when you swap out the three you have picked for the other 3 that were playing.

I don't think our eyes are lying to us on this one.

On Steyn, I wasn't highlighting his stats to compare to Starc. Interesting to me because I think of him as a swing bowler. Not meaningful at those numbers though, just interesting.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Lyon comes across as a thoroughly unpleasant man. I still haven't forgotten his comments expressing a desire to ''end the career'' of a fellow cricketer.

 

[vcs]

Lyon comes across as a thoroughly unpleasant man. I still haven't forgotten his comments expressing a desire to ''end the career'' of a fellow cricketer.

Yep, let's not forget Warner's comments about Trott in the 2013-14 Ashes as well. Lyon's talk before the series last year seemed to reference that incident again.

 

[Stefan9]

Warner and QDK charged. Warner level 2 and QDK level 1.

Warner, de Kock charged after stairwell dispute in Durban - ESPNcricinfo

 

[SteveNZ]

Warner and QDK charged. Warner level 2 and QDK level 1.

Warner, de Kock charged after stairwell dispute in Durban - ESPNcricinfo

Good, it's imperative that odious little **** gets at least one Test off. I don't expect he'll ever change, but at least there'll be an admission by the ICC that his behaviour has no place above U9s level.

 

[Burner]

I was concerned when there was no posts about the Warner fiasco in this thread yesterday. This is more like it.

 

[Burner]

It stretches incredulity a bit to believe that Sarwan did not know. McGrath missed the first two tests because of it and the story was plastered everywhere.

Glenn McGrath to return to West Indies, subject to Jane McGrath's health | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

I've always been more on the side of Sarwan than McGrath in that spat, but the above is new news to me. I had always thought that Sarwan didn't know but if McGrath did miss the first 2 tests, it's unlikely that Sarwan didn't know. Now I think on the line of PEWS' post. McGrath's insult couldn't have come any more readymade with a comeback tbf.

 

[SteveNZ]

It sounds arrogant, but it's pretty true. It's been going on since before I've been following cricket. Some if them don't even realise they're doing it, they've genuinely convinced themselves that Australia are lucky/cheaters/bad people.

Haha, this is complete and utter crap. Honestly, it is. Know how I know? Through the 90s and 2000s, there was great respect for Australian sides. During the 16 in a row, the World Cup wins, we respected those great cricketers. They played hard and well, much harder and better than the current crop and without the absolute douche baggery that Warner leads but Lyon, Starc, Smith also get involved in, and obviously Haddin decided to make a hallmark of his time. There's few more respected cricketers in this country than Allan Border, who scored runs for fun against us. Ditto Ponting, Warne, McGrath etc. Yeah we booed them etc but as you did with Hadlee, it was a sign of respect. So this 'tall poppy' thing or whatever, it's laughable. Mundine trots that crap out too, ignoring the fact that plenty of great sportsmen higher on the tree than him are adored and respected. But hey, if it helps you sleep at night I guess.

Are Australians lucky? No. Are they cheaters? Not generally. Are they bad people....

 

[SteveNZ]

I've always been more on the side of Sarwan than McGrath in that spat, but the above is new news to me. I had always thought that Sarwan didn't know but if McGrath did miss the first 2 tests, it's unlikely that Sarwan didn't know. Now I think on the line of PEWS' post. McGrath's insult couldn't have come any more readymade with a comeback tbf.

So what? McGrath asked Sarwan what Lara's **** tasted like. In an ideal world Sarwan would be Gandhi's brother and let that wash over him, but what's the likelihood that in the heat of battle? Not worth looking at too hard because McGrath was seemingly someone who didn't revel in the personal stuff, but it appears from all reports Warner was happy to go personal then felt personally affronted that it came back. The sort of moron that would poke a bear through the cage then sook when he loses an arm.

It's a shame Warner and Southee didn't captain against each other in the recent T20 series, would've been interesting to see guys with a combined IQ of less than 100 go at it. Fielders on the roof, guys bowling with their opposite hand, sky would've been the limit.

 

[Burner]

So what? McGrath asked Sarwan what Lara's **** tasted like. In an ideal world Sarwan would be Gandhi's brother and let that wash over him, but what's the likelihood that in the heat of battle? Not worth looking at too hard because McGrath was seemingly someone who didn't revel in the personal stuff, but it appears from all reports Warner was happy to go personal then felt personally affronted that it came back. The sort of moron that would poke a bear through the cage then sook when he loses an arm.

It's a shame Warner and Southee didn't captain against each other in the recent T20 series, would've been interesting to see guys with a combined IQ of less than 100 go at it. Fielders on the roof, guys bowling with their opposite hand, sky would've been the limit.

Hmm, I think we are making the same point.

 

[SteveNZ]

Hmm, I think we are making the same point.

Haha, fair enough.