Hashim Amla- the most misleading odi stats ever

[Niall]

Look at his record in WC finals.

Also scored 92 opening for Australia in the 2006 Champions Trophy final. Gilchrist is an icon who in the big moments of ODI cricket personed up.

Amla has ultimately not performed in either event when he was needed unless you consider bashing Ireland and Holland something to be proud off. Its doubtful he will reverse this as sadly he does seem to be somewhat on the wane.

bilateral series runs are all well and good, but so ****ing what if you constantly fail in the world cup and even the champions trophy.

 

[Victor Ian]

Is McGrath the ultimate pressure player. Was always heaping pressure on himself by declaring who he was targeting in big events and then doing it.

 

[RK_123]

Nah,, Waugh, Yuvraj, Miandad, Greenidge, Jayasuriya were not quite as good as Amla.


Jayasuriya was a revelation, no doubt, but he averaged 30, almost half of what Amla does and at the same SR. Obviously Jaya's SR was better considering the era he played, but still the difference in their averages is massive.

The interesting thing about Amla's record is it's almost identical to Dhoni's with the only difference being due to batting at no.3 he has far fewer not-outs than Dhoni and they played in pretty much the same era. Yet everyone wants to rate Dhoni is a top 10 ODI bat of all-time. And really aside from his innings in the 2011 home final in India, he never did that much in tournaments did he? Some very selective memories some have.

Greendige was the best opener of his era by a distance. He was also leading run scorer of 1979 WC unlike Amla who is seen nowhere among the top5 run scorer even though opens the inning. If he played in this era, he would have been averaging 50+ easily. His average is 45 in that era and was a lot more impactful player than Amla was.

Jayasuriya was a relevation as you said and revolutionised odi opening while taking attack to the opposition. Yuvraj was MOS in 2011 WC. These guys were clutch and on their day absolute match winners. I put them ahead of Amla without any shadow of doubt.

 

[RK_123]

Also, re the point about Amla averaging 45 when you strip the minnows out, umm this is what you'd expect of any batsman who averages about 50 isn't it? You wouldn't usually expect them to average more when you take out the weaker bowling attacks they faced would you?

Seems a redundant point.

Against top6 opposition, Kohli averages 55 while de Villiers averages 53.

The likes of Rohit and Dhawan both would be averaging similar to Amla against top 6 in odis. And this is when Amla is a king of soft runs. Would you call Rohit as second best odi opener of all-time?

 

[RK_123]

One of the great moments in cricketing history was watching McGrath nonchalantly walk down the pitch to catch supposed player of the 2003 WC and laughably labelled greatest odi opener of all time Sachin Tendulkar after he spooned a top edge in the first over of the match where his side needed him to step up the most.

It was just inevitable he’d fail when it mattered most. McGrath lined him up all week and he couldn’t take it. You could see it coming a mile away - the sweat on the upper lip, the tension in his face, the downcast mien as he walked out to bat knowing he wasn’t good enough. He was a marked man and couldn’t handle it.

That’s why blokes who perform in clutch situations in WC finals should be thought of more highly than spuds who feast in the prelims or during meaningless series in between. Your hero falls into the latter category.

No batsmen and no team from that era would have been able to come anywhere close to the target to 359 against that attack. The game was already won by Australia in 1st inning.

Tendulkar and Amla aren't similar comparison. Tendulkar has played many iconic knocks unlike Amla who doesn't have a single quality knock bar 150 vs England in a bilateral.

His 97(75) at Centurion is something Amla can only dream off.

He also won a match against Pakistan in 1992 WC and the high-pressure thrilled 2011 WC semis. Aside from that, many top quality hundreds against top opposition and not just associates in group stage.

In ICC tournaments, SRT beats Amla black and blue. His only failure worth talking was WC 2011 final vs SL but that is what seperates him from a Viv Richards and hence is the second greatest odi bat of all-time.

 

[RK_123]

Also scored 92 opening for Australia in the 2006 Champions Trophy final. Gilchrist is an icon who in the big moments of ODI cricket personed up.

Amla has ultimately not performed in either event when he was needed unless you consider bashing Ireland and Holland something to be proud off. Its doubtful he will reverse this as sadly he does seem to be somewhat on the wane.

bilateral series runs are all well and good, but so ****ing what if you constantly fail in the world cup and even the champions trophy.

Good point.

 

[Zinzan]

Greendige was the best opener of his era by a distance. He was also leading run scorer of 1979 WC unlike Amla who is seen nowhere among the top5 run scorer even though opens the inning. If he played in this era, he would have been averaging 50+ easily. His average is 45 in that era and was a lot more impactful player than Amla was.

Jayasuriya was a relevation as you said and revolutionised odi opening while taking attack to the opposition. Yuvraj was MOS in 2011 WC. These guys were clutch and on their day absolute match winners. I put them ahead of Amla without any shadow of doubt.

Lol Greenidge's SR was 64, and an era when Glenn Turner's was 68 (with a better average than Greenidge) and Zaheer Abbas' was 84. On top of all that, it was Haynes who was generally considered the better ODI opener of the two, and Greenidge the better Test opener.

Jayasuriya was a different sort of opener, in that he was all about SR, similar to McCullum when he opened, but you can't deny he averaged 30. Yuvraj could hit a long ball, but he wasn't at the level of Amla.

 

[akilana]

No batsmen and no team from that era would have been able to come anywhere close to the target to 359 against that attack. The game was already won by Australia in 1st inning.

Tendulkar and Amla aren't similar comparison. Tendulkar has played many iconic knocks unlike Amla who doesn't have a single quality knock bar 150 vs England in a bilateral.

His 97(75) at Centurion is something Amla can only dream off.

He also won a match against Pakistan in 1992 WC and the high-pressure thrilled 2011 WC semis. Aside from that, many top quality hundreds against top opposition and not just associates in group stage.

In ICC tournaments, SRT beats Amla black and blue. His only failure worth talking was WC 2011 final vs SL but that is what seperates him from a Viv Richards and hence is the second greatest odi bat of all-time.

That 95 wasn’t a KO match. He played far too many KOs and there was not one innings that would be talked about. He failed in 2 WC finals. IIRC, he failed in 2 championa trophy final.

 

[Burgey]

No, he (Gilchrist) doesn’t “become” a great player because he stepped up on the biggest stage. But imo the biggest stage in LO formats is worth a lot when so much dross is played in between. Gilchrist steppes it up in WC finals.

 

[RK_123]

Lol Greenidge's SR was 64, and an era when Glenn Turner's was 68 (with a better average than Greenidge) and Zaheer Abbas' was 84. On top of all that, it was Haynes who was generally considered the better ODI opener of the two, and Greenidge the better Test opener.

Jayasuriya was a different sort of opener, in that he was all about SR, similar to McCullum when he opened, but you can't deny he averaged 30. Yuvraj could hit a long ball, but he wasn't at the level of Amla.

Greendige SR maybe 64 but he is still regarded as a much more devastating and swashbuckling opener than Amla was. As said, Amla's SR dont justice him because under pressure, this guy cant even chase at a fast SR.

2nd ODI, Pakistan tour of South Africa at Port Elizabeth, Nov 27 2013 | Match Commentary | ESPNCricinfo

This match justifies Amla's legacy. <B>Neeeded 36 to win from 42 balls</B> with Amla sir batting in 90s and from there, he made a fool of himself as SA lost that match and a brilliant inning of de Villiers went in vain. Amla also played a great inning but couldn't seize the final moments where he just had to see his team and costed SA their first series to Pak. In comparison, Dhoni and Kohli with their smarter presence and composure towards game would seize the team to total in far more high pressure situation. Their lies the difference between Amla and Dhoni/Kohli.

 

[RK_123]

That 95 wasn’t a KO match. He played far too many KOs and there was not one innings that would be talked about. He failed in 2 WC finals. IIRC, he failed in 2 championa trophy final.

There is no doubt that SRT wasn't as ruthless as Viv or Ponting but he has scored runs on big games and against top opposition but has been let down by his team.

Amla, on other hand, has never stepped up in a group match of ICC tournaments let alone Knockouts.

 

[RK_123]

Amla is not even in top 20 odi batsmen of all-time. A bilateral bully and a minnow basher. This is where it ends for him. A fantastic test batsmen though.

 

[akilana]

There is no doubt that SRT wasn't as ruthless as Viv or Ponting but he has scored runs on big games and against top opposition but has been let down by his team.

Amla, on other hand, has never stepped up in a group match of ICC tournaments let alone Knockouts.

He failed in KO matches and finals. Do you rate Ponting higher than sachin?

 

[sunilz]

That 95 wasn’t a KO match. He played far too many KOs and there was not one innings that would be talked about. He failed in 2 WC finals. IIRC, he failed in 2 championa trophy final.

Just because u don't remember doesn't mean it didn't happen

Every match in 1998 and 2000 champions trophy was a knock out.
Tendulkar was the reason Australia couldn't win both Champions trophy .

Tendulkar was the top scorer in 1996 and 2003 WC and second highest scorer in 2011 WC

Tendulkar played only 1 CT final and wasn't dismissed in it.

Tendulkar has 4 half century in WC knock out match.

Amla is a glorified minnow basher.

 

[sunilz]

He failed in KO matches and finals. Do you rate Ponting higher than sachin?

Since when is scoring 4 50s in WC QF and SF failing

 

[akilana]

Greendige SR maybe 64 but he is still regarded as a much more devastating and swashbuckling opener than Amla was. As said, Amla's SR dont justice him because under pressure, this guy cant even chase at a fast SR.

2nd ODI, Pakistan tour of South Africa at Port Elizabeth, Nov 27 2013 | Match Commentary | ESPNCricinfo

This match justifies Amla's legacy. <B>Neeeded 36 to win from 42 balls</B> with Amla sir batting in 90s and from there, he made a fool of himself as SA lost that match and a brilliant inning of de Villiers went in vain. Amla also played a great inning but couldn't seize the final moments where he just had to see his team and costed SA their first series to Pak. In comparison, Dhoni and Kohli with their smarter presence and composure towards game would seize the team to total in far more high pressure situation. Their lies the difference between Amla and Dhoni/Kohli.

you said he is a bilateral bully so why use that match as an example? If he would have won it, you won’t give him any props because its just random ODI. I have examples of Dhoni messing up chases

 

[sunilz]

No, he doesn’t “become” a great player because he stepped up on the biggest stage. But imo the biggest stage in LO formats is worth a lot when so much dross is played in between. Gilchrist steppes it up in WC finals.

Glenn Mcgrath has only 1 fiver in Asia. If we go only by these stats he should only be remembered as fast bowler who played supporting role in ASIA.
Then by this logic he should never never be considered among top 5 fast bowlers

 

[RK_123]

He failed in KO matches and finals. Do you rate Ponting higher than sachin?

Tendulkar scores in WC knockouts:

2011 WC knockouts:

53
85
18

2003:

4
83 (Kenya)

1996:

65 vs SL( a quality knock tbh because pitch was turning hell lot and he was the only batsmen who looked at different level to other)

So, excluding his knock against Kenya, SRT still had a 65 vs SL, 53 vs Australia and a match-winning 83 vs Pakistan. Hardly a failure.

I rate them pretty much same. Tendulkar has some great knocks under pressure in bilaterals too. While Amla struggles under pressure even in bilaterals.

 

[Burgey]

There is no doubt that SRT wasn't as ruthless as Viv or Ponting but he has scored runs on big games and against top opposition but has been let down by his team.

Amla, on other hand, has never stepped up in a group match of ICC tournaments let alone Knockouts.

Nah. Tendulkar gassed up on the biggest stage there is. Twice.

 

[RK_123]

you said he is a bilateral bully so why use that match as an example? If he would have won it, you won’t give him any props because its just random ODI. I have examples of Dhoni messing up chases

He is a failure in odis(even in bilaterals under pressure situations). Cant seize the big moments and this was a complete suicide performance.

Amla did that at his peak. Dhoni in his peak days has finished totals which only a great finisher like him can do. He has got great game awareness and thrives under pressure situation unlike Amla who bottles it.