Ranking the candidates for the second best batsman after the Don. 25 contenders

[mr_mister]

The list is finalised. Begin ranking!


The test All-rounder edition was a success. The ODI one was me reaching for way too much. So I'm gonna try an exercise that'l be a lot more straight forward, users simply rank batsman on their batting ability. 25 names is more than 18(the amount for the successful test all-rounders thread) but it's only one list, not two(batting/bowling). So it shouldn't be too tough a workload.

I hope to get a shitton of votes. At least 30. It'l be easy enough to tally up. Then I'll do my list countdown thing with reviews and all


I wanted to make this test exploits only, but wanted to include Grace, Trumper and Ranji. They deserve to be here. They were the legends of their time and though their test records don't make them look worthy, eyewitness accounts do(as do their FC records)

So yeah, we're gonna lean toward 'test' batting ability but just view them as FC batsmen. Not everyone was lucky enough to play a million tests like Sachin


I don't want too many arguments about players, but am willing to make a change if people feel I've really made a doozy of a choice. It was so hard to narrow this down to 25 names. Where to draw the line etc. Considering those who didn't get the chance to play enough test cricket, those who had the terrific stats but for whatever reason not the best CW reputation to elevate them here (Chanderpaul, Barrington, Younis). The ones who faced what CW deemed 'easy bowlers'(Vijay Merchant's FC record) Then there's those really tricky players who I just think CW as a consensus rates really high despite other blokes averaging more than them. This is my rough list, am willing to be flexible. I've based it on what I feel CW considers the top 25 batsmen after the Don I'm sure one name will be a hard player to rank, and if people think he's not worthy of being in the discussion yet do say so


I'll also say I've played a lot of drafts over the last couple of years, and have certainly noticed patterns in which batsmen get chosen before others.



WG Grace
KS Ranji
Victor Trumper
Jack Hobbs
Herb Sutcliffe
Wally Hammond
George Headley
Len Hutton
Everton Weekes
Clyde Walcott
Gary Sobers
Graeme Pollock
Barry Richards
Greg Chappell
Sunil Gavaskar
Javed Miandad
Viv Richards
Allan Border
Steve Waugh
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Ricky Ponting
Rahul Dravid
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkarra

 

[mr_mister]

a few names who I just narrowly didn't include:

Kohli, Walcott, Worrell, McCabe, May, Compton, Crowe, Younis, Harvey and Sehwag


before someone really makes a compelling case for one of these blokes, do you really think they're a chance at cracking the top 20 of this list? If we're just arguing over the potential 24th/25th rank, I say don't bother

 

[jimmy101]

Whatever happened to your English no-rounder ranking thread?

 

[mr_mister]

yeah lol ill update it in a sec. The first round of it had like 6 votes. I dont bother keeping alive dead threads if I feel theres no interest

 

[oblongballs]

a few names who I just narrowly didn't include:

Kohli, Walcott, Worrell, McCabe, May, Compton, Crowe, Younis, Harvey and Sehwag


before someone really makes a compelling case for one of these blokes, do you really think they're a chance at cracking the top 20 of this list? If we're just arguing over the potential 24th/25th rank, I say don't bother

Of course some of those names could crack a top 20 considering you're ranking players no one saw play, some who have nothing to write home about in international cricket off of "eye witness accounts".

I'm not denying the likes of Grace were iconic, they were. I am not denying those that saw them may of thought of them as exceptional players but to include them in a list of all time best batsmen over guys who many have seen play, there's video footage and we have exceptional numbers to back it all up.

 

[mr_mister]

I guess finding that balance of the old greats and the modern players we saw with our own eyes is difficult.


But reading the extensive cricinfo articles about these guys makes it hard for me to exclude them.


Since you're new here I'll also add if you've been on this forum long enough you'd know theres sort of an unofficial tier list of batsman floating around in the eyes of many

 

[Spark]

Smith should not be eligible for this. Nor should anyone else whose Test career hasn't finished (or, at a stretch, is clearly closer to being finished than not, e.g. Cook)

 

[oblongballs]

I'll do my top 25 too:

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Len Hutton
3. Kevin Pietersen
4. Ricky Ponting
5. Allan Donald
6. Greg Chappel
7. Javed Miandad
8. Younis Khan
9. Mohammad Yousuf
10. Zaheer Abbas
11. Sachin Tendulkar
12. Rahul Dravid
13. Sunil Gavaskar
14. Virat Kohli
15. Jacques Kallis
16. Graeme Smith
17. AB de Villiers
18. Hashim Amla
19. Viv Richards
20. Brian Lara
21. Chanderpaul
22. Walcott
23. Jayawardene
24. Sangakkara
25. Martin Crowe

Not in exact order.

 

[mr_mister]

Allan Donald?

and Spark, who do you suggest over Smith? I'm leaning toward Crowe, many consider him the best bat of the 80s

 

[oblongballs]

I guess finding that balance of the old greats and the modern players we saw with our own eyes is difficult.


But reading the extensive cricinfo articles about these guys makes it hard for me to exclude them.


Since you're new here I'll also add if you've been on this forum long enough you'd know theres sort of an unofficial tier list of batsman floating around in the eyes of many

My point is not to deny how good they may have been, my point is that it should not be enough to include them at the expense of players with vast test careers and performances like Younis, Yousuf, Walcott or even Kohli.

 

[Spark]

Allan Donald?

and Spark, who do you suggest over Smith? I'm leaning toward Crowe, many consider him the best bat of the 80s

Younis Khan, maybe? Massively underrated IMO.

But yeah, my point is basically that current players should simply be excluded on the basis that it isn't really fair to include them against players who have had a full career arc, including the usual late career decline, particularly when the current players are currently in career-best form with no guarantee that it'll continue over another 50 Tests.

 

[OverratedSanity]

If it's tests only, then bring in Younis and Neil Harvey for Barry Richards and Steve Smith.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Younis Khan, maybe? Massively underrated IMO.

But yeah, my point is basically that current players should simply be excluded on the basis that it isn't really fair to include them against players who have had a full career arc, including the usual late career decline, particularly when the current players are currently in career-best form with no guarantee that it'll continue over another 50 Tests.

Doesn't make sense not to include Pakistan's GOAT batsman.

 

[mr_mister]

All fair enough. Will replace Steve Smith and Barry. I had Barry in for a few reasons, Don Bradman nominated him as the opener in his own personal all time XI for one. But I guess unfortunately he just didn't have a large enough body of work at the highest level

It's not 'just tests' btw because I dont want to exclude Grace and Ranji... but if people think they complicate things too much I can replace them.

 

[ankitj]

Walcott, Compton and Dudley Nourse should be there on contention. Ranji, Trumper and Harvey can be replaced.

 

[mr_mister]

please do provide someone you think they should replace.

I like the number 25. If we loosen the gate too much itl ballon out to 30, then 35 and well yeah nobody will want to actually bother submitting a list

 

[ankitj]

Ranji, Trumper and Harvey can be replaced. You can make it 32 if you plan to do head to head battles.

 

[mr_mister]

No head to head battles. I'm recreating the thread where everyone submitted a 1-18 ranking of 18 all-rounders I threw up, then I post the results in a countdown thread

More interesting than a head to head battle

 

[OverratedSanity]

Grace and Ranji (probably) should be replaced imo.

 

[mr_mister]

okay. I guess they're just from a time period too hard to gauge. People always struggle to decide whether Grace is literally Bradman's equal or not even worthy of England's 3rd best XI lol


someone said you either dont rate him at all or you rate him as the clear 2nd greatest. So for the sake of difficulty rating him I'll replace Grace and Ranji