Road to the 2017-18 Ashes in Australia

[Cabinet96]

Think the 2009 Ashes would be viewed quite highly if it wasn't unfairly compared to the previous series in England.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I dispute this and its a widely held believe.

Yeah the Aussies topped the batting and bowling stats for the series but they did that on the back of 2 tests......one where they couldnt finish the job and the other they flogged us.

The Ashes are played over 5 tests and in the other 3 Eng were the better side so i dont see how you can say the Aussies were "comfortably" the better team over the series.

Itbt it was ****ing close and neither were "comfortably" better than the other.

That's just a different view point which is fine.

In a hypothetical scenario where one team dominates 2 Tests, but loses the other 3 in close matches, I would be happy to say that the first team were "better" throughout the series even though they lost.

This is similar to 2009 Ashes because of how dominant Australia were in the 1st Test (Scored more runs in 1 innings for 6 wkts dec than England did in 2 for 19 wickets).

I'm not saying they "deserved to win" the series or anything like that. Series' are decided by matches won, not stats or how dominant one team was. You can talk about "winning big moments" and "performing where it counts" but more often than not that's just a matter of circumstance.

But as I said, just the way I see it if 1 team scores comfortably more runs per wicket than the other throughout the series then they were better, at least in that 1 sense.

 

[Adders]

Think the 2009 Ashes would be viewed quite highly if it wasn't unfairly compared to the previous series in England.

Not sure the standard of cricket was that great in 09...........it was 2 ordinary teams going at it, but it did make for a good contest.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Think the 2009 Ashes would be viewed quite highly if it wasn't unfairly compared to the previous series in England.

Na, was a bit like 85 in it was two average sides on show and one won it.

May be the same this series actually with Aussies winning because of home advantage.

 

[cnerd123]

Burnt toast stops play - ESPNcricinfo

Nicceee Gaarrryyyyy

 

[adub]

Three match ups that really stick out for me other than the obvious ones of Australia's pace attack and W,K,S's records in home conditions.

1. - Spin.
Spinners not named SK Warne don't dominate in Australia unless Sydney produces an old style pitch (which is rare these days). But it still has an important part to play. Bowling finger spin in Australia is a job for masochists. Since Warne retired (of those with 5 or more wickets) the only spinners with a better average than Lyno's 34.6 in Australia are SOK (2 Sydney tests), Peterson (a single 6-fer at the WACA where we were flogged), Hauritz (harshly dealt with that lad), Herath and Kumble (and only just). So two ATGs a few guys with only a couple of tests and another Aussie who tbf didn't get to play against the best sides at home)

Vettori has 7 @ 40.7 in 3 tests, Swann 22 @ 52.6 from 8, Ashwin 21 @ 54.7 from 6 and Harbi 8 @ 61.3 in 3 tests in Australia. Moeen should be batting top 6 and considered as a very very part time bowling option here. If England needs a lot of overs out of him they'll be chasing leather and huge totals. Lyon provides a massive massive advantage to Australia here.

2. Top 3. For all the questions on Renshaw Australia's top three is pretty settled and solid. Even if Renshaw doesn't score big he's usually good to see off the shine. And he's a good un, don't write him off. Guys with the ability to bat long periods usually find a way to get back into nick. Warner will score multiple tons in the series and do it at a fair clip. That's just what he does at home. Then Khawaja comes in. He's in top shelf form and dominates in these conditions. Just getting to Smith is going to take some work for England. By contrast the English top 3 is a lottery. It isn't 10/11 any more and Cook won't have Johnson with a broken radar or Siddle bowling a yard too short to feast on. It might not be Johnson and Rhino in god mode either, but Starc, Haze and Cummins are going to work him over. Whoever the other two joining him in the top three are won't have dealt with what's coming before. Root will find himself facing a shiny Kookaburra far more often than he would like.

3. 6 & 7. If this is where England are batting Bairstow and Moeen (and they'd be mad not to unless Stokes can come over) then this is the one place the Poms have a clear advantage. In the last Ashes here Hadds runs at 7 were as vital as MJ's wickets. Australia can't have anything but dreams of having those sorts of runs coming from their 6 & 7 this time. We don't even know who the **** they are going to be. Bairstow and Ali have the tools to do what Hadds did and turn 5 fer not many into winning totals. But then England are going to need them to.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Since Warne retired (of those with 5 or more wickets) the only spinners with a better average than Lyno's 34.6 in Australia are SOK

cause SOK's better

 

[S.Kennedy]

2009 was the most interesting one. Australia were comfortably the better side throughout the series but lost the moments that decided results.



do you see how ignorant and one-eyed that thinking is?

I could just as easily switch around and say "You'll win in England because your bowlers can only take wickets in cloudy seaming conditions, but we'll win them back in Australia because you cannot take wickets on true surfaces/your batsmen can't handle pace".

Which would be just as accurate as what you said.

Well that is the other way of putting it but England have had some success in South Africa which has similar wickets, but it is not as if we are discussing fast-paced wickets here. The wickets in Australia now are often dead. Besides, Australia have usually had success in English conditions (e.g, McGrath Lord's), it is merely this current lot. Boycott and Gower both have excellent records on the WACA!!

The Australian home average stats for your top bats is a damning statistic. Khawaja goes from being top tier to absolute shite. Warner goes from being one of the best in the world to being merely a decent early 40s averager. Smith even takes a big hit.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Three match ups that really stick out for me other than the obvious ones of Australia's pace attack and W,K,S's records in home conditions.

1. - Spin.
Spinners not named SK Warne don't dominate in Australia unless Sydney produces an old style pitch (which is rare these days). But it still has an important part to play. Bowling finger spin in Australia is a job for masochists. Since Warne retired (of those with 5 or more wickets) the only spinners with a better average than Lyno's 34.6 in Australia are SOK (2 Sydney tests), Peterson (a single 6-fer at the WACA where we were flogged), Hauritz (harshly dealt with that lad), Herath and Kumble (and only just). So two ATGs a few guys with only a couple of tests and another Aussie who tbf didn't get to play against the best sides at home)

Vettori has 7 @ 40.7 in 3 tests, Swann 22 @ 52.6 from 8, Ashwin 21 @ 54.7 from 6 and Harbi 8 @ 61.3 in 3 tests in Australia. Moeen should be batting top 6 and considered as a very very part time bowling option here. If England needs a lot of overs out of him they'll be chasing leather and huge totals. Lyon provides a massive massive advantage to Australia here.

2. Top 3. For all the questions on Renshaw Australia's top three is pretty settled and solid. Even if Renshaw doesn't score big he's usually good to see off the shine. And he's a good un, don't write him off. Guys with the ability to bat long periods usually find a way to get back into nick. Warner will score multiple tons in the series and do it at a fair clip. That's just what he does at home. Then Khawaja comes in. He's in top shelf form and dominates in these conditions. Just getting to Smith is going to take some work for England. By contrast the English top 3 is a lottery. It isn't 10/11 any more and Cook won't have Johnson with a broken radar or Siddle bowling a yard too short to feast on. It might not be Johnson and Rhino in god mode either, but Starc, Haze and Cummins are going to work him over. Whoever the other two joining him in the top three are won't have dealt with what's coming before. Root will find himself facing a shiny Kookaburra far more often than he would like.

3. 6 & 7. If this is where England are batting Bairstow and Moeen (and they'd be mad not to unless Stokes can come over) then this is the one place the Poms have a clear advantage. In the last Ashes here Hadds runs at 7 were as vital as MJ's wickets. Australia can't have anything but dreams of having those sorts of runs coming from their 6 & 7 this time. We don't even know who the **** they are going to be. Bairstow and Ali have the tools to do what Hadds did and turn 5 fer not many into winning totals. But then England are going to need them to.

Don't underestimate Rocky - he could very well be England's answer to the opener question. Rocky has scored 1000 plus runs four seasons in a row on a Chester-le green seamer then to move to Surrey and push your average to 57 on a batting track is more than impressive. He is one of these guys that should have had the England phone call years ago but was ignored through the ECB's stupidity. If he has a weakness his conversion rate is poor. I've seen him many times get to the 60s or 70s then chuck his wicket away, but his strike-rate is large.

Bowls some part-time off-breaks also haha

 

[Gnske]

He also barely averages 34 in FC cricket after a long career of trying to master green decks.

Real class.

 

[adub]

Sometimes guys no one much rates become greats.





But usually they get burnt.

 

[S.Kennedy]

He also barely averages 34 in FC cricket after a long career of trying to master green decks.

Real class.

A scratchy 20s ave 2007-12 brings his later averages down. He actually averaged 47.03 in his final season for Durham. Stoneman was Di Venuto's shadow originally. He is basically a Di Venuto clone. That is one of the reasons he went to Surrey, because of Di Venuto.

 

[Adders]

Does the CA site stream the test matches in Australia and if so is there any charge?

Awesome. Just looked into this and discovered I get free access through my mobile carrier. Only downside is I now have a filthy Cricket Australia app on my phone.........eewwwww.

 

[Burgey]

If rumours of Marsh and Paine being included are true, Australian selectors are doing their bit to make it an interesting series

 

[S.Kennedy]

Or CA have looked at the ECB and James Vince and said to themselves, ''we can go one better''.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If rumours of Marsh and Paine being included are true, Australian selectors are doing their bit to make it an interesting series

i'm pretty chuffed tbh. It looks as though they are finally getting their **** together and selecting a side to win cricket matches

 

[Burgey]

Lol, oneFC ton in his career, and that in 2006. Lehmann has made a more recent fc ton than Paine. Darsh will do his usual - one decent dig amongst utter dross all series.

 

[cnerd123]

Lol, oneFC ton in his career, and that in 2006. Lehmann has made a more recent fc ton than Paine. Darsh will do his usual - one decent dig amongst utter dross all series.

lmao this is actually true

wtf Australia

 

[Nate]

The worst selection of all-time?

Why even bother with Domestic Cricket?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Extraordinary stuff.

Pulling Renshaw into a net against the Test attack and then dropping him, under the eye of GC. Get rid of the bloke.