Dale Steyn -Greatest of All Time

[Spark]

I guess the only criticism you could make is that he hasn't completely dominated a series against the best players of pace (Australia/England), the way he's done vs. India and other teams. Saying that, India had a damn good batting lineup in 2010-11 when he routed us in Nagpur and we toured there later that year. That was probably peak Steyn.

It depends what you mean by dominated, but it would have been something outlandish for him to top his 2008-9 performance down here.

 

[vcs]

It depends what you mean by dominated, but it would have been something outlandish for him to top his 2008-9 performance down here.

I was thinking averaging ~20 with 3 or more 5-ers kind of thing. Incredibly picky, I know. The 2008 series was pretty close. I don't remember too much of it TBF. In the 2012 tour, he only burst into life at Perth.

 

[harsh.ag]

Have Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee and Steyn as the top 4.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I was thinking averaging ~20 with 3 or more 5-ers kind of thing. Incredibly picky, I know. The 2008 series was pretty close. I don't remember too much of it TBF. In the 2012 tour, he only burst into life at Perth.

The 2012 series in England and Australia both had ridiculously flat decks for the most part. Anderson/Broad and the Australian pacers' figures make for terrible reading in their own conditions. Within that context, Steyn did fantastic.

Besides, the best batting lineup he's ever faced wasnt Australia or England. It was India in 2008-11 which had Sehwag, Sachin, Dravid, Gambhir, VVS with almost all of them in pretty much peak form. And he had multiple dominant performances against them.

 

[ankitj]

A Steyn vs. McGrath vs. Ambrose poll will be a great contest. Think Marshall and Hadlee still rated slightly above this trio by CW in general.

 

[vcs]

The 2012 series in England and Australia both had ridiculously flat decks for the most part. Anderson/Broad and the Australian pacers' figures make for terrible reading in their own conditions. Within that context, Steyn did fantastic.

Besides, the best batting lineup he's ever faced wasnt Australia or England. It was India in 2008-11 which had Sehwag, Sachin, Dravid, Gambhir, VVS with almost all of them in pretty much peak form. And he had multiple dominant performances against them.

Philander managed to outbowl him a couple of times in that period though (NZ tour, England tour).

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Interesting that despite being an ATG test bowler, Steyn hasn't been as good in ODIs. Others like Lillee, Hadlee, Akram, McGrath and Ambrose were also ATG ODI bowlers (Marshall less so).

 

[subshakerz]

Dale Steyn for me is somewhere is the top 15 bowlers perhaps, maybe top ten.

I give him credit for being a fantastic match-winner. But he was dominated too often for me to put him in with Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee and Imran, who I put as the top tier. He had a tendency to blow hot and cold in the same series. In India in 2010 for example, he took that amazing 10-fer in Nagpur but seemed pedestrian in the next test. In Australia in 2012, he was taken apart in the first two tests before ripping into Australia in Perth. If you study his career, this was his tendency, a single match-winning performance in every series.

People point to his terrific strikerate but ignore the fact that his R/O is quite high. This means if he wasnt taking wickets, he was usually going for runs. Whereas guys like Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath would still manage to keep things tight even when they were not getting wickets.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

A Steyn vs. McGrath vs. Ambrose poll will be a great contest. Think Marshall and Hadlee still rated slightly above this trio by CW in general.

Not sure that it would be. Most of Steyn’s most devoted fans seem to concede he’s behind McGrath and mostly Ambrose as well. So I don’t think he’d get many votes in that poll aside from those that are in love with him.

 

[harsh.ag]

Damn I miss watching McGrath bowl. Fatal harmony.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Perhaps I'm biased, but this is the best bowler I've ever seen:

 

[Dendarii]

I rate him as highly as anyone, but just playing devil's advocate, do we hold it against him that he played so much in SA?

People were saying when analysing Graeme Smith's batting average it should be taken into account that he played so much in SA, which is traditionally fast-bowler friendly, especially with the new ball. If that's the case then you'd have to take it into account when rating Steyn as a bowler, just logically speaking.

I don't think it means he isn't an ATG or doesn't belong in the top 5, not by a long shot, but would you have to take it into account when regarding his statistics as people did with Graeme Smith?

Here's his record in South Africa: Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

And his record outside of South Africa: Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

So I think you raise a valid question, but he still has a very good away record. The average might be higher than the career averages of the players he's being compared against, but the strike rate beats everyone except Waqar Younis's 43.4.

 

[SeamUp]

In his era he is so far ahead of the rest just like a Syd Barnes for example. It is so hard to compare across era's but Steyn has been a monster among his fellow contemporaries and he was one for a long period which included Asian success of which many great fast bowlers couldn't quite do.

It isn't too far fetched to rate him as highly as you want.

To me I have agony doing so, so I won't. Too many Great fast bowlers. Just enjoyed reading or watching what each one did.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

https://youtu.be/TqBcvExhVpA

 

[harsh.ag]

It's another one of those things. Won't rate current batsmen as highly because easier pitches. Yet won't rate Steyn that highly because <sumfin sumfin>

 

[Burgey]

A Steyn vs. McGrath vs. Ambrose poll will be a great contest. Think Marshall and Hadlee still rated slightly above this trio by CW in general.

I got the impression Marshall and McGrath were widely regarded as the two best around here, but I might think that because they're the top two in my mind.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I think Marshall is certainly considered the best in general. Whilst McGrath was obviously a great bowler as well he seems to be one like Imran and indeed Steyn that seems to have an element of schoolboy crush about it.

 

[vcs]

Marshall is a cut ahead of the rest, he has everything going for him (I'm just judging statistically, he was before my time).

SR of 45, plenty of big hauls while having to compete with several other great fast bowlers, dominated in all conditions/countries, could do everything with the ball, etc.

 

[Howe_zat]

Going on records Ambrose, McGrath and Marshall are the standouts, nothing between them

Steyn is maybe more like Lillee, who was a bit more expensive than those but smashed batting lineups on demand and was miles ahead of the next best at the time

 

[ankitj]

Marshall is a cut ahead of the rest, he has everything going for him (I'm just judging statistically, he was before my time).

SR of 45, plenty of big hauls while having to compete with several other great fast bowlers, dominated in all conditions/countries, could do everything with the ball, etc.

Going on records Ambrose, McGrath and Marshall are the standouts, nothing between them

Steyn is maybe more like Lillee, who was a bit more expensive than those but smashed batting lineups on demand and was miles ahead of the next best at the time

Donald isn't far behind, is he?