Dale Steyn -Greatest of All Time

[ma1978]

Long time lurker, new poster. This revelation today got me actually posting. Dale Steyn has always been my favourite cricketers and an undisputed ATG. That said, when I was actually looking at his statistics today -= the average, the strike rate and the context of when it was achieved (in a massively batting friendly era), not to mention the fact that he is head and shoulders above his peers, a case could be made that he is statistically the greatest pace bowler of all time, and that surprised me.

In my view, I rank him fourth - after Marshall, Ambrose and Mcgrath - but even that seems far above how he is generally viewed.

Thoughts?

 

[kingkallis]

Top 5 with Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Hadlee

 

[Coronis]

Top 5 with Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Hadlee

Sounds about right.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

SF Barnes? Lindwall? Tyson? Davidson?
Trueman? Lillee? Holding?

 

[smash84]

Long time lurker, new poster. This revelation today got me actually posting. Dale Steyn has always been my favourite cricketers and an undisputed ATG. That said, when I was actually looking at his statistics today -= the average, the strike rate and the context of when it was achieved (in a massively batting friendly era), not to mention the fact that he is head and shoulders above his peers, a case could be made that he is statistically the greatest pace bowler of all time, and that surprised me.

In my view, I rank him fourth - after Marshall, Ambrose and Mcgrath - but even that seems far above how he is generally viewed.

Thoughts?

Yes, it isn't far fetched to rank him alongside those greats

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Would he count as better than Donald and Pollock?

Certainly top 20 but not sure he sneaks into the top 10,

 

[Red]

To be considered the GOAT, imo he needs to be definably better than Marshall. I'm not sure he is that.

He's a phenomenal bowler, great skills and great to watch.

 

[Red]

SF Barnes? Lindwall? Tyson? Davidson?
Trueman? Lillee? Holding?

Correct. There were quicks prior to the modern era.

 

[fredfertang]

I don't think he's necessarily in the top five South Africans let alone of all comers - I'd certainly put him behind Alan Donald and Mike Procter - I'd bracket him with Neil Adcock, Peter Pollock, Shaun Pollock, Peter Heine and big Vern

 

[Lillian Thomson]

These fan boy threads are really funny. I voted Top 20 but not entirely sure he’s that high.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Top 20.

 

[Slifer]

This is silly, Dale Steyn is easily in the top ten of all time. Just a question of where.

My top 10 btw (no order) :

MM
McGrath
Hadlee
Imran
Steyn
Donald
Wasim
Amby
Trueman
Lillee

 

[S.Kennedy]

If you are pegging it at the colour television era maybe? What about guys like Barnes, Spofforth, Larwood, Tyson, Lindwall, Davidson?

Further, what about Jimmy Anderson (sorry!)?

 

[Slifer]

I dont consider barnes a seamer. Tyson spofforth didnt play enough (i know different times). Davidson has a case as does Lindwall but then so do garner, holding, waqar, pollock etc. At the end of the day you have to go with gut, what others say , stats etc.

 

[social]

If you are pegging it at the colour television era maybe? What about guys like Barnes, Spofforth, Larwood, Tyson, Lindwall, Davidson?

Further, what about Jimmy Anderson (sorry!)?

By most accounts Barnes wasnt quick e.g. Bradman rated O'Reilly higher as Barnes didnt have a googly

Impossible to rate Spofforth

Larwood ranks lower on basis of longevity as does Tyson

Many experts rank Lindwall below Lillee whom I rate below McGrath

I seriously doubt that Davidson was as good as Akram

 

[TheJediBrah]

I rate him as highly as anyone, but just playing devil's advocate, do we hold it against him that he played so much in SA?

People were saying when analysing Graeme Smith's batting average it should be taken into account that he played so much in SA, which is traditionally fast-bowler friendly, especially with the new ball. If that's the case then you'd have to take it into account when rating Steyn as a bowler, just logically speaking.

I don't think it means he isn't an ATG or doesn't belong in the top 5, not by a long shot, but would you have to take it into account when regarding his statistics as people did with Graeme Smith?

 

[S.Kennedy]

By most accounts Barnes wasnt quick e.g. Bradman rated O'Reilly higher as Barnes didnt have a googly

Impossible to rate Spofforth

Larwood ranks lower on basis of longevity as does Tyson

Many experts rank Lindwall below Lillee whom I rate below McGrath

I seriously doubt that Davidson was as good as Akram

I'd rank Lillee higher also, but I might be tempted to have Lindwall ahead of Steyn. I'd rank Lillee however above McGrath but this is just a preference thing.

If averages count for anything, A. Davidson 20.53, Akram 23.62? Economy 1.98 over Akram's 2.59? I'm not making an argument either way - I'd have Akram above Steyn though. If we are dismissing players on (lack of) longevity, should we not similarly raise the profile of somebody like an Anderson or Broad - or even a Ntini?

 

[smash84]

I rate him as highly as anyone, but just playing devil's advocate, do we hold it against him that he played so much in SA?

People were saying when analysing Graeme Smith's batting average it should be taken into account that he played so much in SA, which is traditionally fast-bowler friendly, especially with the new ball. If that's the case then you'd have to take it into account when rating Steyn as a bowler, just logically speaking.

I don't think it means he isn't an ATG or doesn't belong in the top 5, not by a long shot, but would you have to take it into account when regarding his statistics as people did with Graeme Smith?

By that token bowlers from the SC should get extra points for bowling on unhelpful wickets

 

[TheJediBrah]

By that token bowlers from the SC should get extra points for bowling on unhelpful wickets

they do

maybe not as much as they should though. One thing I've noticed is that people tend to use where a team plays as a way to rate batsmen's averages but they don't seem to do it for bowlers as much.

eg. Australian batsman has high average, "doesn't count as much because he plays on roads". But the same concession isn't given to Australian bowlers very often. (just using Australia as an example for obvious reasons)

 

[ankitj]

SF Barnes? Lindwall? Tyson? Davidson?
Trueman? Lillee? Holding?

You suggested 6 names for top 5 In addition to 5 mentioned by kk.