Stokes Arrested

[Burgey]

There was definitely one guy attacking someone else with the bottle and Stokes swooped in and that is all fine for me

Following them as they were backing off is a bit...eh. I mean, if they were cowardly enough to attack with a bottle once, I wouldn't want to turn my back to them again. I can see why he didn't want to stop till they were both KOed

Whose the prick kicking the guy in the head when's on the placement tho? What a little bitch that guy is.

Continuing to go after someone after they begin to back off is precisely what self defense isn’t. Even if they’ve been the aggressor previously.

 

[harsh.ag]

Dunno what case law says, but if someone has attacked first, don't think it's unreasonable not to trust their backing away.

 

[Burgey]

It really is though. If they’re backing away and you move forward and assault them, that’s not self defense, because your response has to be reasonably proportionateto the risk of harm at the time you commit the act. If the bloke moved forward in the same context, having done what he did, then that’s pretty well clear cut self defense. If the bloke moved forwards on the same context and Stokes pulled out a pistol and shot him from five feet away, that most probably wouldn’t be.

 

[Teja.]

I think there are two reasonable perspectives on this and I won't comment on this without additional evidence but it's funny to see the tough guys going on about how it's standard ladz on the piss lulz, get out of your room brah when the last time they've actually punched someone was last night when they accidentally unwielded their ultra shortsword and attacked the homogoblin with their fist instead on Witcher 7.

 

[honestbharani]

What if they are backing away to fetch a weapon or something?

 

[cnerd123]

Yea that's the way I would see it - they've already take a cheap shot using a weapon and they have started the fight. If I've made the decisions to stand there and fight them (which I won't, let's be real, i'm getting the **** out of there) then I'm not about to trust them when they start to back away.

The guy was still shoving Stokes everytime Stokes approach him. The guy didn't turn around and run away, then guy didn't fall to his knees and curl up. He still stood there in Stoke's face and was still putting his hands out. What if he lets his guard down and that guy swings at him?

I can see why Stokes wouldn't feel safe in that scenario and would keep going after them. I don't know anything about the Law so can't comment on how any judge or jury will comment on this, but personally I understand Stokes. Especially given he is drunk and it's all a bit chaotic and the blood is rushing around.

The major issue, to me, is how he even got into that situation to begin with. All of them really. Go out, have a drink, fine. But getting drunk enough to get into a fight? And then ending up in an alleyway somewhere with some other random drunk people? And then getting into a confrontation with said drunk people? This is a series of bad decisions, one after another. Stokes' fighting isn't the most alarming thing to me, it is the sequence of events leading up to it. Incredible lack of discipline and professionalism.

 

[Burgey]

Why doesn’t the person in Stokes’ position back away as well, to you know, diffuse it as well?

Keep in mind I’m talking from a legal perspective (and an Australian one at that) here, not as someone in that sort of heated position he found himself.

 

[Burgey]

What if they are backing away to fetch a weapon or something?

If your Aunty had balls she’d be your uncle.

Though tbf this sort of defence proves very successful for American cops after they shoot black blokes.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol... is that how argue cases when you don't have a proper answer?


That was a genuine question, btw... How, in that moment, is a person supposed to know the other person is standing down? Its one thing to sit down in a court room on a morning after a nice breakfast in air conditioning and a group of old guys chit chatting, quite another to actually be there and understand what is going on. And I dunno about British or Australian laws but at least in India, the very essence of the law is to ensure the innocent is not punished. It has its pluses and minuses but if this happened in India, I dont think it would be too difficult to get Stokes off on the self defence and "the other guy started it" arguments. Maybe Teja can comment in detail though.

 

[harsh.ag]

The guy didn't run away after being taken down the first time. He didn't run away because a drunken fight like that is about ego. He backed away while still trying to be edgy because that gives him a chance to end things with some form of self dignity. And because it's about ego, Stokes couldn't let it go because for him the only acceptable ending was the guy's ego being busted for having the temerity to attack them.

This is an offhand reading of the situation and would be glad to be corrected.

I have no idea how you're supposed to assign blame here. If anyone does, good on them.

 

[Tom Flint]

Even Jimmy Anderson was out,

Thought he'd be going to bed early with a cup of coco these days?

Who's the guy in the middle?

 

[Hennybogan]

Geez watch the video, the guy who was backing away and got clobbered was trying to diffuse the situation, he wasn't even the one with the bottle.

 

[harsh.ag]

Geez watch the video, the guy who was backing away and got clobbered was trying to diffuse the situation, he wasn't even the one with the bottle.

Yeah that is a problem for sure.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Can't see how anyone can defend him really. Had the bloke with bottle been knocked out within 5 or 10 seconds then nobody would say much as he would have deserved it but Stokes was throwing punches willy nilly and eventually landed one before he wore himself out. Think he will be lucky to go to Australia this winter. Unless he pays off the bloke he smacked and case is dropped.

 

[Hennybogan]

In fact Stokes attacked him after he was trying to help his mate and / or stop the fight. Stokes lost the plot, watch it frame by frame as the cops certainly will.

 

[StephenZA]

Unless he pays off the bloke he smacked and case is dropped.

Is assault not a criminal act so puely up to the CPS? Pay off the civil suit.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Is assault not a criminal act so puely up to the CPS? Pay off the civil suit.

No idea of the system as never lost it like that so not needed to find out. Whatever happens he will probably make some grovelling apology about needing help with his drinking sat next to Strauss at some stage.

 

[hazsa19]

He's obviously going to argue that he lost his cool when confronted with a bottle, and he may well have a point, but the video does him no favours. It looks bad. There's always a belled with a camera.

My biggest problem is this, where are his team mates? Or his mates? He's clearly a bit of a ****, why is there no one there to protect him from himself?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Maybe they know not to get in the way when he loses it.

 

[TNT]

He's obviously going to argue that he lost his cool when confronted with a bottle, and he may well have a point, but the video does him no favours. It looks bad. There's always a belled with a camera.

My biggest problem is this, where are his team mates? Or his mates? He's clearly a bit of a ****, why is there no one there to protect him from himself?

He has a point, oh yeah. His mate took a swing at my mate so I chased him down the road and coward punched him in self defence.