*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[MW1304]

and MW.

TBH, it just seems a bizarre chat about numbers those that knock him. Who cares if he bats at 7, if he's scoring like a top 6 bat there, we've got plenty of depth in batting (maybe not so much with this line-up, but still Dawson a handy number 8), and he scores so quickly he rarely runs out of partners, and anyway he's good with the tail a handy thing.

In the end, the ones that want him dropped seem to want to ignore his batting of over a year to the present time, yet totally forget his bowling of roughly when his batting was shite. His bowling of last Winter is really important, but his batting not, to clear up a jumbled sentence.You could easily just switch the argument on it's head.

Fact is he contributes almost more than any other cricketer England has for consistency for awhile (mind you that's because we have a lot of streaky players ATM in Tests, probably just Root and the two fast bowlers are reliable), just first as a bowling all-rounder, now as a batting one. Maybe it'll switch again, but game-by-game he's rarely not worth a place.

Huh? I don't want him dropped, I just want him playing as a batsman. In fact I love the guy and I'm desperate for him to succeed as one.

The truth is he just isn't good enough to be a first choice spinner, and unless we want a six man bowling attack that means his batting is the vastly more important suit. I don't see how you can flip this on its head when his batting has come on so much he's putting up the numbers of a top 6 batsman, yet his bowling has stagnated, if not regressed. Again, I don't want him dropped.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Something like:

Cook
Whoever (Stoneman, Jennings)
Root
Bairstow
Moeen
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Spinner
Broad
Jimmy

Would sort things out imo. Moeen is fine for me at 5. If he keeps on the way he is he'll be averaging 40+ in the near future. Yes at 7 he frees his arms more but he batted brilliantly in India up the order. Root would have to bat at 3 though with this team. So to have him batting at 4 leave Bairstow at Keeper and bring in someone at number 3 who is not Gary Ballance.

 

[MW1304]

I could get behind that, especially if the Ballance experiment fails again and Jonny keeps scoring from 5.

If only for the dream trifecta at 6/7/8.

 

[Prince EWS]

Something like:

Cook
Whoever (Stoneman, Jennings)
Root
Bairstow
Moeen
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Spinner
Broad
Jimmy

Would sort things out imo. Moeen is fine for me at 5. If he keeps on the way he is he'll be averaging 40+ in the near future. Root would have to bat at 3 though to do that. So to have him batting at 4 leave Bairstow at Keeper and bring in someone at number 3 who is not Gary Ballance.

I'd be thinking about Jennings at 3, with Stoneman (or more likely Hameed long-term) opening.

 

[Tom Flint]

I'd give duckett another go at 3. Give him a chance in a home series, we often throw a debutant under the bus in a difficult overseas tour then discard them completely. He cant be judged on last winter when the whole batting unit was awful. Reminds me of carberry after the johnson ashes.
Different story with lyth or vince who was given a fair crack in a home series and failed.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

I'd be thinking about Jennings at 3, with Stoneman (or more likely Hameed long-term) opening.

Currently i'd prefer a little less stodge up front so Stoneman would be my ticket. (Hate to say i'm agreeing with Warne and his overly laboured point yesterday but so be it.)

 

[Shady Slim]

I'd give duckett another go at 3. Give him a chance in a home series, we often throw a debutant under the bus in a difficult overseas tour then discard them completely. He cant be judged on last winter when the whole batting unit was awful. Reminds me of carberry after the johnson ashes.
Different story with lyth or vince who was given a fair crack in a home series and failed.

carberry was actually really good then though

duckett's eh and i don't really like his face

 

[Tom Flint]

carberry was actually really good then though

duckett's eh and i don't really like his face

Yeah i think only kp scored more runs over there. I really liked carbs and was pretty gutted he wasnt picked again.
???ducketts face! Not sure why i found that so funny but i did

 

[theegyptian]

Nah just theegyptian.

Most of us love Moeen. I wanted him to bat 5 but he is perfect at 7, thing is that I think Bairstow is also perfect at 7. It is not a huge issue though, the top order has been the thing for what seems like forever.

I don't remember calling for Moeen to be dropped in test cricket. I just shot down any suggestion that he should bat in the top 5 for England against SA and Aus - and it seems like the England management agreed. Moeen has a worse record than the much ridiculed Shane Watson - and yet seems to get a free pass on here (from most) with regards to any criticism.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Chanderpaul on captaincy debut made a double century at the world famous Bourda

 

[ImpatientLime]

the idea that any england batsman in australia is going to stand much chance of success with the exception of root is fanciful tbh. providing australia get their full compliment on the pitch.

 

[Adders]

Hard to believe that no one has made 2 test doubles at Lords.

 

[vcs]

Match has started but cricinfo scorecard not updating for me?

 

[Groundking]

FFS thats poor

 

[wpdavid]

Something like:

Cook
Whoever (Stoneman, Jennings)
Root
Bairstow
Moeen
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Spinner
Broad
Jimmy

Would sort things out imo. Moeen is fine for me at 5. If he keeps on the way he is he'll be averaging 40+ in the near future. Yes at 7 he frees his arms more but he batted brilliantly in India up the order. Root would have to bat at 3 though with this team. So to have him batting at 4 leave Bairstow at Keeper and bring in someone at number 3 who is not Gary Ballance.

Root's going to take some persuading to bat at number 3.

 

[Adders]

**** off......you are shitting me

 

[wpdavid]

What happened, since cricnfo cba to update?

 

[MW1304]

I don't remember calling for Moeen to be dropped in test cricket. I just shot down any suggestion that he should bat in the top 5 for England against SA and Aus - and it seems like the England management agreed. Moeen has a worse record than the much ridiculed Shane Watson - and yet seems to get a free pass on here (from most) with regards to any criticism.

For the most part of his career proper, Shane Watson was a top order batsman, often opener, who was a useful fourth seamer under the right conditions. Moeen started off as a genuine allrounder batting 6 or 7. Then he was asked to be the frontline spinner batting 8, when unsurprisingly his batting tailed off a bit. Since he's gone back to actual batting positions he's been far better.

Point is that's hardly a fair comparison. Already scored more hundreds for one.

 

[vcs]

What happened, since cricnfo cba to update?

Root gone, caught behind off Morkel

 

[vogue]

Just switched on to see Root get out for 190. 367-6. Looks another beautiful sunny day at Lords.