Haha, just three random names off the top of your head, right? That's our issue (or mine by the names you posted) but surely the coach/selectors aren't in the same jizzing frame of mind. Does what we post on a message board and what Jason from sheep country truly matter in terms of influence? You'd bloody hope not. I mean, we're not selling the Plunket Shield to anyone - or at least no one's buying it. We could use it for whatever purpose we wished and no one would give a stuff. Rag the pitches up for 6 months, no one sneezes. Let the bowlers bowl off 18 yards - hey who cares!
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New Zealand doom and gloom thread
- Thread starter Bahnz
- Start date
Flem274*
123/5
The saddest aspect of the batting this tour was two years ago this lot looked the Pakistani bowlers in the eye in the UAE right after they demolished Australia.
Even if anyone wants to pretend the third test doesn't count because of Phil Hughes, NZ had Pakistan in massive massive trouble in the second test after some good batting and bowling from NZ before NZ ran out of light and fresh pace bowling and had to bowl part timers. Pakistan won the first test but from memory the batting included a Latham hundred and maybe other scores of note.
Even if anyone wants to pretend the third test doesn't count because of Phil Hughes, NZ had Pakistan in massive massive trouble in the second test after some good batting and bowling from NZ before NZ ran out of light and fresh pace bowling and had to bowl part timers. Pakistan won the first test but from memory the batting included a Latham hundred and maybe other scores of note.
First Test - 231 and 262 (Pakistan scored 566-3 batting first). Second Test - 403 and 290-9 dec (both innings had a centurion and no others passing 50s). The third Test, Brendon has already said was totally out of the books as they played without fear of consequence (which we'd all agree runs rampantly through our batsmens minds). So not really that great.
There's just no consistency of contributions. 50s here and there, without any significance in being able to bat time or in partnerships. It's a part mix of poor technique and approach in conditions (for which the coaches need to take a lot of responsibility) and mental ineptitude.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Tbf I think we've been worse since that Pakistan series than before it.
Mike5181
International Captain
So trick-or-treating is still a thing in New Zealand apparently. Hadn't noticed because I've lived in apartments for 4-5 years. I was smart enough to pick up enough lollies to avoid awkward rejections but I've made some rookie mistakes. I've only picked up chocolate. Freddos, Flakes, Crunchies, etc. I've got em all..... if you like chocolate.
My second mistake was cracking at the first adorable kid that came knocking. I basically just gave her an entire packet.
My second mistake was cracking at the first adorable kid that came knocking. I basically just gave her an entire packet.
The Hutt Rec
International Vice-Captain
I forgot to buy lollies or anything, heard some kids coming so ran off and hid in the bedroom. In the end I didn't hear any knocks, so I think they passed my place by, anyway.
I did have some fruit I could've given them, but I remember the crushing disappointment of being given that as a kid - I don't think I've ever really recovered.
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straw man
Hall of Fame Member
It's not quite doom and gloom, but a course correction required if we're going to be competitive in ODIs and T20s.
This article sums up a lot of the problems.
New Zealand still trying to fill the shoes of 2015 World Cup heroes
In the video, Fleming especially wants focus on:
- Middle order batting
- Middle overs bowling
- Wicket-taking spinner
First is obvious. Would have thought death bowling was generally more a problem than middle-overs bowling, though I will say I thought Milne and Santner were a little less effective through the middle overs than they have been.
For a wicket-taking spinner, Sodhi is ready to go, in between getting dropped for no reason, and formed a good combo with Santner in the home ODIs.
This article sums up a lot of the problems.
New Zealand still trying to fill the shoes of 2015 World Cup heroes
In the video, Fleming especially wants focus on:
- Middle order batting
- Middle overs bowling
- Wicket-taking spinner
First is obvious. Would have thought death bowling was generally more a problem than middle-overs bowling, though I will say I thought Milne and Santner were a little less effective through the middle overs than they have been.
For a wicket-taking spinner, Sodhi is ready to go, in between getting dropped for no reason, and formed a good combo with Santner in the home ODIs.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Regarding batting, what's the best way forward? Give Munro another go? Hope that CJ and Neesham will come through? Or start testing out new candidates (Phillips, Chapman, Young etc.)?
_Ed_
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This, IMO. I'd like to see Phillips given the gloves in ODIs and T20s as soon as possible, and then hopefully he'll have really grown into the role by the time the 2019 World Cup rolls around. In a way it's a shame we didn't play a bit more youth in this tournament, considering it was at some of the World Cup grounds. Sticking with the likes of Ronchi and Broom (would have preferred Bruce) was possibly a bit of a wasted opportunity.
Having said that, I'll feel sorry for Blundell if we go straight to Phillips now. One international game, and he didn't even get a bat.
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Howsie
International Captain
1. Martin Guptill
2. George Worker
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Henry Nicholls/Tom Bruce
6. Jimmy Neesham
7. Tim Seifert
Is the top seven I'd like to see us run with this summer, with Young and Chapman getting the odd game when we rest the likes of Williamson or Taylor (Young) or Neesham for Chapman.
2. George Worker
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Henry Nicholls/Tom Bruce
6. Jimmy Neesham
7. Tim Seifert
Is the top seven I'd like to see us run with this summer, with Young and Chapman getting the odd game when we rest the likes of Williamson or Taylor (Young) or Neesham for Chapman.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
We need more bloody A tours. Saying they're not up to scratch yet because they're not doing well in domestics is one thing, but they do need to develop against different kinds of players.
Someone needs to sort out Neesham and Anderson. Honestly, do they know what their role is any more? Seemed like a while ago CJ was the batting all-rounder and Jimmy the bowling all-rounder, and now they've flipped them. The temptation is to have two Chris Cairns in the l/o but it's not gonna happen. Ideally, I'd like to see CJ work on his long game (as in, staying power, not hitting a long hit) in the way Elliott played his role. I could see Anderson doing a decent job for us at #5, but his role needs to be defined better.
Someone needs to sort out Neesham and Anderson. Honestly, do they know what their role is any more? Seemed like a while ago CJ was the batting all-rounder and Jimmy the bowling all-rounder, and now they've flipped them. The temptation is to have two Chris Cairns in the l/o but it's not gonna happen. Ideally, I'd like to see CJ work on his long game (as in, staying power, not hitting a long hit) in the way Elliott played his role. I could see Anderson doing a decent job for us at #5, but his role needs to be defined better.
Zinzan
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This, we need at least 1, perhaps 2 proper batsmen who can bat time against international attacks. I also agree about Bruce, he's already fashioned a better white ball record than any other Kiwi I can ever remember. List A average 35.77 SR 124 & T20s average 38.12 SR 151.
I wouldn't even be against Brownlie & Latham in the top 5 until we find more solid options, & Bruce or Munro & 6. Neesham can only really be considered as a batsmen considering his bowling is such a liability & I'd prefer Munro or Bruce & 6 or 7.