***Official*** Australia in India 2017

[anil1405]

What are the chances of India surprising everyone and giving Kuldeep his debut in place of Jayant?

 

[Shri]

What are the chances of India surprising everyone and giving Kuldeep his debut in place of Jayant?

Leaning towards the 6 batsmen, 4 bowlers plus a keeper combo myself but they are probably not going to change the XI, which would be understandable tbh. Only possible change at this stage is Rahul missing out due to injury.

 

[honestbharani]

Anyone who tells you luck doesn't decide matches in cricket is lying. I'm not saying Australia won purely because of luck, but I'm sure a lot more went their way and they probably weren't as much better than India as 333 runs suggests.

One of the eye-opening examples of this for me was in the last Ashes, think it was Trent Bridge. Australia were all out for 60 in the first innings, then in the second innings they got to 0-60 and everyone was going on about how much better they were playing. Having watched both innings I can tell you that was mostly bull****. In the first innings there wasn't a single play and miss until Australia were like 8-down. Every time the batsman was beaten the ball found the edge and went to a slip fielder. And in the second innings Warner and Rogers played and missed literally over a dozen times but the ball just never found the edge.

That's an extreme example but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened here, ie. O'Keefe kept getting the edges going to fielders whereas Jadeja just kept ripping it past. Luck can play a huge role, even if it should even out in the long run.

Right.. I am not saying they won because of the luck but if I was in the Indian dressing room, I would probably try to tell the boys that so much of everything went their way that it may not happen again and therefore, if this side can play to its potential we can still come back into the series.


But again, the psychological blows of this test cant be undone any time soon, I am afraid. I dont expect Australia to lose any test this series, maybe perhaps the dead rubber as is the Aussie tradition.

 

[anil1405]

England, headingly 1989.

Results | Global | ESPN Cricinfo

When an away team is playing so many tour games in between internationals, they are bound to get acclimatized to those conditions. I doubt if that result was as embarrassing for England as it is for India after this defeat.

 

[honestbharani]

When a spinner is allowing MMarsh to stay still or rock back to punch the ball through cover region in a test match on a spinning pitch, he cannot be termed as our best bowler.

Don't know what hb is smoking. Ashwin looked very subpar in the second innings especially.

Well, yeah, I did overlook nostrils there, my bad. He was our best but Ash was our best spinner. And Anil, using similar logic, any spinner who can keep defeating Steve Smith in flight, dip and bounce throughout an innings of 100+ of that guy is our best spinner and by a bit of a distance.

 

[anil1405]

Well, yeah, I did overlook nostrils there, my bad. He was our best but Ash was our best spinner. And Anil, using similar logic, any spinner who can keep defeating Steve Smith in flight, dip and bounce throughout an innings of 100+ of that guy is our best spinner and by a bit of a distance.

Jaddu was indeed the better of the three spinners for India in this test by a small margin (its a different thing that he could've been more smart). The least we can expect from our leading spinner is to maintain a constant line and length which Ashwin failed to.

 

[centurymaker]

Anyone who tells you luck doesn't decide matches in cricket is lying. I'm not saying Australia won purely because of luck, but I'm sure a lot more went their way and they probably weren't as much better than India as 333 runs suggests.

One of the eye-opening examples of this for me was in the last Ashes, think it was Trent Bridge. Australia were all out for 60 in the first innings, then in the second innings they got to 0-60 and everyone was going on about how much better they were playing. Having watched both innings I can tell you that was mostly bull****. In the first innings there wasn't a single play and miss until Australia were like 8-down. Every time the batsman was beaten the ball found the edge and went to a slip fielder. And in the second innings Warner and Rogers played and missed literally over a dozen times but the ball just never found the edge.

That's an extreme example but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened here, ie. O'Keefe kept getting the edges going to fielders whereas Jadeja just kept ripping it past. Luck can play a huge role, even if it should even out in the long run.

Luck is a big part of this game.

For eg, Moeen Ali scored a 100 in the Chennai Test despite playing and missing two dozen times on a road. Yet people kept saying that Moeen Ali has played really well.. just because he scored a ton. The guy could've been out upto 25 times if his misjudgment in playing the ball had been slighly less, sometimes ever so slightly less. (large majority of those plays & misses were to Ashwin and he picked up almost Zero wickets that game despite bowling so well, while Jadeja got a 10-fer despite being merely average with the ball in the same game!

So luck (destiny) is often a big factor in who does well and who doesn't do well. But over an entire team, it can sort of balance out but sometimes it doesn't. And you see a big collapse when every misjudgment is leading to a straight dismissal.

IMO we shouldn't read much into India's 2nd innings where it was clear that they knew the game was already over.

While in the 1st innings, there was a dramatic 7-11 collapse. And the thing that has remained with me from that collapse is the Ashwin's dismissal where he played it straight down onto his boot and it popped up to short leg. At that point, it became as clear as day light to me that no way in hell that India was ever going to win the match! Just like it was certain that Moeen Ali would get a ton that day (and he was dropped too).

Why did the luck desert India? IMO, the team was on cloud 777, and almost everyone associated to Indian cricket was predicting 4-0 and a lot of people were bragging left right and center and literally writing off Australia before a single ball, totally dismissive and when that kind of thing happens nature has a way of teaching you a lesson! It happens very often as many would know from watching sports.

(Kohli : 'We really needed this reality check')

A recent sporting example that has come to mind is Portugal winning the Euro Cup! Everyone was mocking them and calling them ****, partially true but they truly went over the top with it because they hate ronaldo and were dismissive of Portugal every game.

But after a couple of games I was already feeling like this is Portugal's Cup, and before the semi finals I was like 'if Portugal is destined to win the Euros, Germany has to lose to France in the other semi final because even a lot luck can't make up the disparity between Portugal and Germany. And Germany lost and it was clear that Portugal would upset the strong favourites France in the final, and the French public were kind of already celebrating a very likely win. But it was Destiny. Luck. Or Nature's play...that Portugal won in extraordinary fashion. And you can often sense such happenings.

France came so close to scoring a few times, hit the bar too and with Ronaldo out injured, Portugal had almost no chance of winning logically but realistically they were destined to win all along, being awarded the easiest path and the right oppositions to ensure their success.

 

[centurymaker]

I think he hasn't been the same for a while, if he is carrying a small injury that would explain a lot.

He has hernai. Its a horrible thing to have, it really limits you and can be quite painful. People with hernai are often advised not to lift anything heavy or physically exert in any way so that the condition doesn't get worse.

So he has been walking on a thin rope. And Im surprised how he still manages to play despite being about 70% as he himself admitted.

 

[Burgey]

Results | Global | ESPN Cricinfo

When an away team is playing so many tour games in between internationals, they are bound to get acclimatized to those conditions. I doubt if that result was as embarrassing for England as it is for India after this defeat.

Nah bugger that. Australia tours India nearly every year nowadays, in one form or another. And the players play IPL too.

Australia had been beaten by England 18 months previously 3-1 at home, had just lost 3-1 or 4-1 at home to the Windies and had had about one series win in the preceding four or so years. Never mind the 87 WC, that series was the turning point in Australian cricket.

England had Gooch, Broad, Gatting, Gower and Botham. Australia had Border and Aldernam. That was it going into that series in terms of name
players. Massive, massive upset.

 

[Burgey]

He has hernai. Its a horrible thing to have, it really limits you and can be quite painful. People with hernai are often advised not to lift anything heavy or physically exert in any way so that the condition doesn't get worse.

So he has been walking on a thin rope. And Im surprised how he still manages to play despite being about 70% as he himself admitted.

The definitive guide to the effect of hernias is by Spike Milligan in "Adolf Hitler: My Part in his Downfall".

 

[Debris]

Luck is a big part of this game.

For eg, Moeen Ali scored a 100 in the Chennai Test despite playing and missing two dozen times on a road. Yet people kept saying that Moeen Ali has played really well.. just because he scored a ton. The guy could've been out upto 25 times if his misjudgment in playing the ball had been slighly less, sometimes ever so slightly less. (large majority of those plays & misses were to Ashwin and he picked up almost Zero wickets that game despite bowling so well, while Jadeja got a 10-fer despite being merely average with the ball in the same game!

So luck (destiny) is often a big factor in who does well and who doesn't do well. But over an entire team, it can sort of balance out but sometimes it doesn't. And you see a big collapse when every misjudgment is leading to a straight dismissal.

IMO we shouldn't read much into India's 2nd innings where it was clear that they knew the game was already over.

While in the 1st innings, there was a dramatic 7-11 collapse. And the thing that has remained with me from that collapse is the Ashwin's dismissal where he played it straight down onto his boot and it popped up to short leg. At that point, it became as clear as day light to me that no way in hell that India was ever going to win the match! Just like it was certain that Moeen Ali would get a ton that day (and he was dropped too).

Why did the luck desert India? IMO, the team was on cloud 777, and almost everyone associated to Indian cricket was predicting 4-0 and a lot of people were bragging left right and center and literally writing off Australia before a single ball, totally dismissive and when that kind of thing happens nature has a way of teaching you a lesson! It happens very often as many would know from watching sports.

(Kohli : 'We really needed this reality check')

A recent sporting example that has come to mind is Portugal winning the Euro Cup! Everyone was mocking them and calling them ****, partially true but they truly went over the top with it because they hate ronaldo and were dismissive of Portugal every game.

But after a couple of games I was already feeling like this is Portugal's Cup, and before the semi finals I was like 'if Portugal is destined to win the Euros, Germany has to lose to France in the other semi final because even a lot luck can't make up the disparity between Portugal and Germany. And Germany lost and it was clear that Portugal would upset the strong favourites France in the final, and the French public were kind of already celebrating a very likely win. But it was Destiny. Luck. Or Nature's play...that Portugal won in extraordinary fashion. And you can often sense such happenings.

France came so close to scoring a few times, hit the bar too and with Ronaldo out injured, Portugal had almost no chance of winning logically but realistically they were destined to win all along, being awarded the easiest path and the right oppositions to ensure their success.

I have a sneaky feeling if the result happened in reverse that you would not be crediting India's win to luck.

 

[Shri]

Damn, it was a pretty good match for fans of spin bowling but I would have given them a normal pitch that turns on day 3 or 4. We could have got some confidence before unleashing a turner on a nervous side in a later game. Though, I think Starc and Haze would have given us a fight either way.

Looking forward to the next game so much though. Been a long time since we had to fight for our wins early in home test series to stay alive. Its a new feeling.

 

[anil1405]

Nah bugger that. Australia tours India nearly every year nowadays, in one form or another. And the players play IPL too.

Australia had been beaten by England 18 months previously 3-1 at home, had just lost 3-1 or 4-1 at home to the Windies and had had about one series win in the preceding four or so years. Never mind the 87 WC, that series was the turning point in Australian cricket.

England had Gooch, Broad, Gatting, Gower and Botham. Australia had Border and Aldernam. That was it going into that series in terms of name
players. Massive, massive upset.

Yea am not completely aware of Australia's struggle in the 80's. I vaguely remember reading and hearing from others about the transformation phase they were going through in the mid 80's.

Its just that the amount of tour games they played in that series made me realize that they would've acclimatized to those conditions much better than teams get to these days.

Also from that batting line up it appears that Taylor was the only newbee in the side while rest of them played for a good 4-5 years. When exactly was it that the batting became a formidable unit for Australia? Was that 1989 series the turning point?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Damn, it was a pretty good match for fans of spin bowling but I would have given them a normal pitch that turns on day 3 or 4. We could have got some confidence before unleashing a turner on a nervous side in a later game. Though, I think Starc and Haze would have given us a fight either way.

Looking forward to the next game so much though. Been a long time since we had to fight for our wins early in home test series to stay alive. Its a new feeling.

In a way, England's best effort was thwarted by the fact that the wicket was flatter, and a draw ended up being the result in their first Test. Australia were in some ways fortunate that they did a similar thing (performing at their optimum in the first test) on a wicket that ensured that 40 wickets would be taken.

 

[centurymaker]

I have a sneaky feeling if the result happened in reverse that you would not be crediting India's win to luck.

No.

For eg, I have already said India was totally lucky in defeating South Africa in 2015. I say it as I see it. India was somewhat lucky against New Zealand especially earlier in the series.

In the next game this series, who knows India may get lucky with the toss first up and then lucky in several other ways. Edges unintentionally not carrying or playing & missing a lot, favourable umpiring decisions..

I have a strong feeling that India is not going to lose this series. Let's see if this hunch comes true or not.

 

[Debris]

No.

For eg, I have already said India was totally lucky in defeating South Africa in 2015. I say it as I see it. India was somewhat lucky against New Zealand especially earlier in the series.

In the next game this series, who knows India may get lucky with the toss first up and then lucky in several other ways. Edges unintentionally not carrying or playing & missing a lot, favourable umpiring decisions..

I have a strong feeling that India is not going to lose this series. Let's see if this hunch comes true or not.

As you say, India were expected to win every test so 3-1 to India is the expected result from here. I will say that 3-1 as a comprehensive defeat sounds way better than a 4-0 thrashing. Who knows? Australia only have to get crazy lucky in one test in the next 3 to get a drawn series so there is some small hope.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nah bugger that. Australia tours India nearly every year nowadays, in one form or another. And the players play IPL too.

Australia had been beaten by England 18 months previously 3-1 at home, had just lost 3-1 or 4-1 at home to the Windies and had had about one series win in the preceding four or so years. Never mind the 87 WC, that series was the turning point in Australian cricket.

England had Gooch, Broad, Gatting, Gower and Botham. Australia had Border and Aldernam. That was it going into that series in terms of name
players. Massive, massive upset.

And if not for rain they would've won 6-0. Crazy.

 

[Victor Ian]

One game has made such a huge difference. You know how it is..... you hate all posters from the opposition because they are too arrogant, too smug, too big headed - they aren't, it is just you hate to have to acknowledge that you are going to get smashed and there is nothing you can do about it except watch it happen and spew. Then your team goes and wins the game like this and everything is great again. You like all Indian supporters again - they are not so bad. The world is great right now. Thanks to some throwbacks to memories of 89 I am in a very positive place right now.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I really liked Kohli's post match interview and comments. My respect has grown a lot for him since some of his petulant early days.

One thing that bothers me though is his and Kumble's lack of credit to SOK for his performance. They gave Australia credit, but pointedly, very little to him.

I'm not saying they should have lauded him massively, but I've never seen an opposition talk down or push against such a statistically dominant performance. Can anyone else think of a similar example?

 

[Shri]

I really liked Kohli's post match interview and comments. My respect has grown a lot for him since some of his petulant early days.

One thing that bothers me though is his and Kumble's lack of credit to SOK for his performance. They gave Australia credit, but pointedly, very little to him.

I'm not saying they should have lauded him massively, but I've never seen an opposition talk down or push against such a statistically dominant performance. Can anyone else think of a similar example?

Individual player praises can begin after the series, not in the middle of one.