Placing our bets on "Test Cricket's Young Fab Four"

[Blocky]

Id like to know these conditions where only kw and root average 50 and Smith does not??

Smith has hardly played outside Australia, with exception to 12 tests in England where his average is significantly lower. He's had three good seasons, mostly due to the opposition he's gotten to face, at the same time that others like Voges, Khawaja and co have been averaging similar to him. If your argument is that he doesn't bat in the best of conditions, then answer why Australia suck so badly at the moment against real competition, especially away from home.

They're three tests removed from an unheard of five match losing streak.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Kohli and Smith bat in conditions where multiple players average 50s.
Root and Williamson bat in conditions where no one other than them average 50s.

More and more, due to the conditions that players play in, and the fact that wickets have lost all character (Waca is no longer fast, bouncey and a nightmare for batsmen, SCG is no longer a pitch that offers turn in Day 3 and lets sides turn it around, MCG is no longer a seaming wicket that you have to play tough to get tough runs on), combined with bats that mean mis-timed hits are going boundary wise. Australia are fast becoming reverse India - handy in sublime batting conditions where their fielding and aptitude for staying in all day rather than giving it away puts them at an edge at home against most sides, but they'll get done in, in tough conditions against sides that don't mentally combust.

That's what I said above, Kohli and Smith both get to bat in such favorable conditions, especially Kohli considering he faces Gareth Batty when sides wrongly think **** spinners are going to be useful in India.

You realize Smith averages over 50 pretty much everywhere right?

And Williamson averages less than 40 against non minnows?

 

[Zinzan]

Fmd mate, he's just played in five consecutive test losses and in a side which has routinely collapsed around him.

He's scored runs everywhere and against everyone. Of course today he went on a rampage against a demoralised side, but that doesn't detract from his performances over the last 2-3 years.

I know his 160 odd not out wasn't as visually appealing as Kane caressing one on one knee to cover for a dot in his beautiful looking seven or as lovely as a Root defensive shot as part of a middling 60, but Smith scores a **** load, against everyone. Pick apart his stats all you like, but he does. And he makes big tons as he does it.

Right now he's clearly the best batsman in the world. May not be in a year's time, but right now he is.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up Kane in your response to me as if I've been arguing he's up there with Smith & Root atm. I thought I made it fairly clear that right now I have Smith and Root as equal 1st, marginally ahead of Kohli.

I'm just not prepared to say Smith is necessarily ahead of Root just yet, when Root's just averaged 50 against the hardest to face test attack in the world in their own backyard & btw made batting look fairly easy while doing it, while Smith has been caning it at home and doing brilliantly also.

If Smith can match Root and average 50 or more in the series against Ashwin and co, that will be enough for me to put out on his own.

 

[Blocky]

I also realise that Smith plays the majority of his tests in Australia on absolute roads where even half blind Taylor manages to score 290. That's the entire point, if they were all batting in the same conditions, you could accurately ascertain their talent, but the reality is, Smith is batting in the easiest conditions against some of the easiest bowling he'll ever see.

When that's not the case, he fails - Herath in Sri Lanka, Abbott/Philander/Rabada in Australia, and pretty soon Ashwin/Jadeja in India.

 

[morgieb]

I also realise that Smith plays the majority of his tests in Australia on absolute roads where even half blind Taylor manages to score 290. That's the entire point, if they were all batting in the same conditions, you could accurately ascertain their talent, but the reality is, Smith is batting in the easiest conditions against some of the easiest bowling he'll ever see.

When that's not the case, he fails - Herath in Sri Lanka, Abbott/Philander/Rabada in Australia, and pretty soon Ashwin/Jadeja in India.

Averaging over 40 is failing?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Smith averages 57 away from home
Root averages 44 away from home
Williamson averages 46 away from home
Kohli averages 44 away from home

Tell me more about how Smith is a home-track bully

 

[OverratedSanity]

Root is awesome, but I don't really think there's any real argument that can be made for him being better than Smith, atleast currently. They're on opposite ends of the conversion rate spectrum. Can't be the best in the world if you constantly throw away chances to get big scores.

 

[cnerd123]

I think SA, Australia, Pakistan ,England at home and Ind at home are all superb attacks. Remains to be seen how many of these bowlers go on to become ATGs, so only in 10 years time can we properly judge these bowling attacks. It's much better than the mid 2000s in all honesty. Lots of very good new ball pairs and 3-4 really high quality spinners.

urgh no

We can judge these bowling attacks right now by watching how they bowled and evaluating their performances

I don't get waiting for future cricket to happen to evaluate how good players performed in current cricket, nor trying to evaluate how good the cricket was based on the numbers after it happened vs. watching what actually happened.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Root is awesome, but I don't really think there's any real argument that can be made for him being better than Smith, atleast currently. They're on opposite ends of the conversion rate spectrum. Can't be the best in the world if you constantly throw away chances to get big scores.

Well if you're converting more, then you're not getting as many starts, so you can write off more innings' as fails.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I also realise that Smith plays the majority of his tests in Australia on absolute roads where even half blind Taylor manages to score 290. That's the entire point, if they were all batting in the same conditions, you could accurately ascertain their talent, but the reality is, Smith is batting in the easiest conditions against some of the easiest bowling he'll ever see.

When that's not the case, he fails - Herath in Sri Lanka, Abbott/Philander/Rabada in Australia, and pretty soon Ashwin/Jadeja in India.

55% of his Tests have been played at home. Which technically is a majority, so I'll give you that. It's the only thing you've said that hasn't been laughably wrong so I'd feel bad not to.

 

[Jono]

Smith averages 57 away from home
Root averages 44 away from home
Williamson averages 46 away from home
Kohli averages 44 away from home

Tell me more about how Smith is a home-track bully

Man this post makes me remember how gun all of them are. They all have great records away. Legends. So blessed to have them. Test cricket gonna be delicious with them over the next 5 years.

 

[OverratedSanity]

urgh no

We can judge these bowling attacks right now by watching how they bowled and evaluating their performances

I don't get waiting for future cricket to happen to evaluate how good players performed in current cricket, nor trying to evaluate how good the cricket was based on the numbers after it happened vs. watching what actually happened.

Thanks for missing all context you ****.

When I said "only in 10 years time can we properly judge these bowling attacks", I meant relative to historical attacks from other eras. It's not about stats it's about waiting to see if these attacks stay as good as they've been or if they decline due to things like injuries/lack of development/being Indian etc. I literally said in the post you quotes that the attacks of today are superb. We don't know how many of these will continue to be good.

 

[Zinzan]

I also realise that Smith plays the majority of his tests in Australia on absolute roads where even half blind Taylor manages to score 290. That's the entire point, if they were all batting in the same conditions, you could accurately ascertain their talent, but the reality is, Smith is batting in the easiest conditions against some of the easiest bowling he'll ever see.

When that's not the case, he fails - Herath in Sri Lanka, Abbott/Philander/Rabada in Australia, and pretty soon Ashwin/Jadeja in India.

Meanwhile, against the best 5 sides in the last decade or so (Aus,Eng, Pak, SA & Ind) Smith & Root both average 55, while KW averages late 30s (see those stats a page back), so if we're honest about it, if there's anyone who gets easy runs against the likes of SL & the Windies & yet fails against good attacks like SA & India at home, it's Williamson. Let's not forget Ashwin got him 4 out of 4 times in that series and I think KW managed 1 fifty all tour.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Well if you're converting more, then you're not getting as many starts, so you can write off more innings' as fails.

Smith doesn't fail more often though, does he?

Regardless, I think converting more with the starts you do get is a better assett to have than getting more starts but not converting.

 

[Blocky]

Removing the West Indies from Smith's record tells a truer story.

 

[Blocky]

Meanwhile, against the best 5 sides in the last decade or so (Aus,Eng, Pak, SA & Ind) Smith & Root both average 55, while KW averages late 30s (see those stats a page back), so if we're honest about it, if there's anyone who gets easy runs against the likes of SL & the Windies & yet fails against good attacks like SA & India at home, it's Williamson. Let's not forget Ashwin got him 4 out of 4 times in that series and I think KW managed 1 fifty all tour.

"Against the best sides"

That also doesn't take into account that Smith and Root haven't had to face Australia or England's bowling attacks like Williamson has. Again, it's one of the reasons Lara was seen as spectacular, as he had to take on all of the worlds best bowling attacks while having a popgun attack in his side.

Root is without doubt the best young player in the world, followed by De Kock, then Smith (based on his insane ability to not get bored and keep grinding out runs) then Williamson.

Root and Williamson both are far more likely to get a start than Smith, but neither have his ability to keep batting when conditions suit and not get himself out.

 

[indiaholic]

He played 4 ****ing innings Zinzan.. We have had this discussion before.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Removing the West Indies from Smith's record tells a truer story.

He averages 49 even after removing WI (which I don't know why you'd do, but all right)

That's still awesome.

 

[indiaholic]

Smith doesn't fail more often though, does he?

Regardless, I think converting more with the starts you do get is a better assett to have than getting more starts but not converting.

20-30 is wasting a start. Root routinely gets 70-80 which is just a decent score.

 

[Jono]

Thanks for missing all context you ****.

When I said "only in 10 years time can we properly judge these bowling attacks", I meant relative to historical attacks from other eras. It's not about stats it's about waiting to see if these attacks stay as good as they've been or if they decline due to things like injuries/lack of development/being Indian etc. I literally said in the post you quotes that the attacks of today are superb. We don't know how many of these will continue to be good.

it was a random point to make completely out of context in the thread, so I think you're to blame for confusing *****.

for shame