***Official*** Australia vs New Zealand ODIs 2016/17

[mr_mister]

yeah I'll say this about NZ tactically they were always pretty impressive in ODIs considering their lack of ATG players


like in '92 they had Greatbatch opening and slogging which was a master stroke, and relied on Harris, Germon and Watson to bowl harmless yet tight, economic overs and give them a great chance to win lots of matches.

Now their tactics and their players are s*** lmao

 

[_Ed_]

relied on Harris, Germon and Watson to bowl harmless yet tight, economic overs and give them a great chance to win lots of matches.

A better player than I gave him credit for, if he was bowling and wicketkeeping at the same time.

 

[Blocky]

yeah I'll say this about NZ tactically they were always pretty impressive in ODIs considering their lack of ATG players


like in '92 they had Greatbatch opening and slogging which was a master stroke, and relied on Harris, Germon and Watson to bowl harmless yet tight, economic overs and give them a great chance to win lots of matches.

Now their tactics and their players are s*** lmao

The players are pretty good (by NZ standards), the tactics and on field decision making is what is ****.

 

[Burgey]

https://www.facebook.com/foxsportsaus/posts/1379615152050287

The Grade Cricketer weighs in

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A better player than I gave him credit for, if he was bowling and wicketkeeping at the same time.

Especially as he was still a few years away from making his debut

 

[Blocky]

I think one of the things Australia have tended to do a little better than us is work with robust personalities who do have off field dramas. Shane Warne is an obvious example, but Merv Hughes had his quirks, you've got Andrew Symonds who realistically did probably more wrong things than Jesse Ryder and wasn't anywhere near the talent, David Warner through his youth.

NZ tend to throw talent away often because of "team fit" - i.e "You don't talk, act and do the same things as the core group of three or four who are leading the team"

Matt Sinclair's career was shortened effectively due to a bad relationship with Stephen Fleming.
Mark Richardson was fortunate to be the best opening bat we'd had in decades because he also was ostracized for his less than usual personality.
Jesse Ryder is a great example of the player being ****ed in the head, but management not knowing how to help him out.

Most NZers absolutely despise Brad Haddin but ultimately, we need a bit more mongrel in the team like that, Neil Wagner is the only guy you feel like will never give up trying no matter the situation, the amount of softness in the way our guys give dismissals away, or the fact that their opening spells at 135-140kph but every other spell barely breaches 130 etc.

 

[Zinzan]

Again, fair enough you have your opinion. I imagine we'll look back on last season's CH thread and see Flem taking absolutely no thrill out of us winning the series? Or as I suspect, it didn't 'make up' (whatever that may mean) for the World Cup but it felt bloody great.

.

Lol, Flem likes to play-up his cool indifference about it all now, but I'll almost guarantee if you can track down any past CH thread when NZ won, Flem would have been among the most excitable, if not the most excitable of the Kiwi posters in his reaction to it..

 

[Zinzan]

I think one of the things Australia have tended to do a little better than us is work with robust personalities who do have off field dramas. Shane Warne is an obvious example, but Merv Hughes had his quirks, you've got Andrew Symonds who realistically did probably more wrong things than Jesse Ryder and wasn't anywhere near the talent, David Warner through his youth.

NZ tend to throw talent away often because of "team fit" - i.e "You don't talk, act and do the same things as the core group of three or four who are leading the team"

Matt Sinclair's career was shortened effectively due to a bad relationship with Stephen Fleming.
Mark Richardson was fortunate to be the best opening bat we'd had in decades because he also was ostracized for his less than usual personality.
Jesse Ryder is a great example of the player being ****ed in the head, but management not knowing how to help him out.

Most NZers absolutely despise Brad Haddin but ultimately, we need a bit more mongrel in the team like that, Neil Wagner is the only guy you feel like will never give up trying no matter the situation, the amount of softness in the way our guys give dismissals away, or the fact that their opening spells at 135-140kph but every other spell barely breaches 130 etc.

I don't think you're wrong in your overall observation that Australians seem to be better at dealing with their rough diamonds, but Mark Richardson being a bit of a character was great for the team environment from everything I've ever read or heard. so not sure why you chose to use him as an example.

Also, the Jesse thing works both ways. Nobody wanted Jesse playing more than I did, and while I don't know enough to say NZ cricket did or didn't do enough in terms of support, there's little doubt Jesse didn't leave them much choice at the end.

Incidentally, I'm assuming you read what Bmac had to say about Haddin in his book.

 

[social]

I think one of the things Australia have tended to do a little better than us is work with robust personalities who do have off field dramas. Shane Warne is an obvious example, but Merv Hughes had his quirks, you've got Andrew Symonds who realistically did probably more wrong things than Jesse Ryder and wasn't anywhere near the talent, David Warner through his youth.

NZ tend to throw talent away often because of "team fit" - i.e "You don't talk, act and do the same things as the core group of three or four who are leading the team"

Matt Sinclair's career was shortened effectively due to a bad relationship with Stephen Fleming.
Mark Richardson was fortunate to be the best opening bat we'd had in decades because he also was ostracized for his less than usual personality.
Jesse Ryder is a great example of the player being ****ed in the head, but management not knowing how to help him out.

Most NZers absolutely despise Brad Haddin but ultimately, we need a bit more mongrel in the team like that, Neil Wagner is the only guy you feel like will never give up trying no matter the situation, the amount of softness in the way our guys give dismissals away, or the fact that their opening spells at 135-140kph but every other spell barely breaches 130 etc.

Oz are no better or worse when it comes to playing favourites

Warne got away with everything because he was Warne

They showed patience with Warner because the talent pool had dried up whilst Symonds was punted because the talent pool was deep at the time

Also, according to at least one of his teammates, the treatment of Symonds was appalling

 

[Gnske]

Incidentally, I'm assuming you read what Bmac had to say about Haddin in his book.

Let me guess, "Nah he's good bloke"

 

[Zinzan]

Let me guess, "Nah he's good bloke"

Nah, pretty innocuous really & not that uncomplimentary at all, just talked about spending a lot of time in Australia along side Haddin, getting coaching by Rixon in the early 2000s.

Here's an excerpt;

My training partner was the NSW keeper, Brad Haddin. Brad and I worked together every day, virtually, and got on really well. He was a bit brasher than me, more secure in his keeping, or maybe that was just a product of being part of Aussie cricketing culture. It was interesting years later watching him become the ugly Australian on the field - I thought it was all piss and wind, but some people bit, and the harder they bit, the more he'd get his back up and go harder himself. I found that if you just laughed it off, he was likely to join in and relax a bit

 

[Blocky]

It's sledging at the end of the day.

There are certain people you sledge, because their ego will make them want to dominate and they'll make mistakes.
There are certain people you want to say absolutely nothing to, because you'll just spur them on and they'll concentrate massively on the task at hand. ( Kevin Pietersen in Ashes 2005 )
There are certain people that you just can't even breach and it's water off a ducks back ( Jacques Kallis comes to mind here )

A good sledger works out really quickly which is which and how to approach it. Quite often with Kallis the Aussies just went deathly silent and gave him nothing because there was no point. The moment you show that it effects you (Grant Elliott) - you're their target and they'll continue grinding you.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah, pretty innocuous really & not that uncomplimentary at all, just talked about spending a lot of time in Australia along side Haddin, getting coaching by Rixon in the early 2000s.

Here's an excerpt;

My training partner was the NSW keeper, Brad Haddin. Brad and I worked together every day, virtually, and got on really well. He was a bit brasher than me, more secure in his keeping, or maybe that was just a product of being part of Aussie cricketing culture. It was interesting years later watching him become the ugly Australian on the field - I thought it was all piss and wind, but some people bit, and the harder they bit, the more he'd get his back up and go harder himself. I found that if you just laughed it off, he was likely to join in and relax a bit

The way most non-Australians see Brad Haddin as a person is laughable, and stems entirely from cultural differences and simple ignorance

You couldn't find a nicer guy in the real world, people often have a hard time separating on-field personalities with real life

 

[SteveNZ]

Grant Elliott? Another weird example to rival the Richardson one. Richardson was a popular team guy and Elliott scored 80-odd in the World Cup final with all sorts of spit and **** coming his way, an SCG ODI ton, etc etc.

 

[SteveNZ]

The way most non-Australians see Brad Haddin as a person is laughable, and stems entirely from cultural differences and simple ignorance

You couldn't find a nicer guy in the real world, people often have a hard time separating on-field personalities with real life

The 'too nice' stuff in the dressing room and in the media wasn't exactly on field though, was it? I don't care if Brad Haddin donates all his spare time to saving endangered species and helping old women cross the road. There's on-field hardness and competitiveness, and there's being a complete **** like he was in the WC final. I heard him the other day saying he was upset that Rod Marsh didn't contact him when he was dropped after he went home to be with his daughter. Yet the same bloke is totally okay with sending guys like Vettori off in his final ODI, and Elliott after his effort. Jog on.

 

[_Ed_]

The 'too nice' stuff in the dressing room and in the media wasn't exactly on field though, was it? I don't care if Brad Haddin donates all his spare time to saving endangered species and helping old women cross the road. There's on-field hardness and competitiveness, and there's being a complete **** like he was in the WC final. I heard him the other day saying he was upset that Rod Marsh didn't contact him when he was dropped after he went home to be with his daughter. Yet the same bloke is totally okay with sending guys like Vettori off in his final ODI, and Elliott after his effort. Jog on.

And I still hold a grudge over this:

 

[TheJediBrah]

The 'too nice' stuff in the dressing room and in the media wasn't exactly on field though, was it? I don't care if Brad Haddin donates all his spare time to saving endangered species and helping old women cross the road. There's on-field hardness and competitiveness, and there's being a complete **** like he was in the WC final. I heard him the other day saying he was upset that Rod Marsh didn't contact him when he was dropped after he went home to be with his daughter. Yet the same bloke is totally okay with sending guys like Vettori off in his final ODI, and Elliott after his effort. Jog on.

You've pretty much just reiterated what I said

 

[straw man]

Side for today? Reckon Henry should have a spell for Ferguson, while I'd like to leave out CDG but the XI is such that it doesn't really work to bring in Nicholls or Tastle for him.

 

[Athlai]

You just reminded me how much I hate this squad.

 

[DriveClub]

Another thrashing on the cards for kiwis