The Kane Williamson Average Watch thread

[Burgey]

Not if they're Javed Miandad batting in Pakistan

 

[Zinzan]

People also forget the LBW effect when talking about current batsmen and stats. Because of DRS among other things umpires are much more ready to give lbws they never would have dreamed of giving all those years back. A batsman averaging 50 over 200 innings (assuming no not outs) would suddenly average about 45-46 if we were to add 20 more lbws to those stats(a reasonably conservative 1/10 innings.

Fair point, & particularly against spinners whilst well forward. There's used to be an unsaid rule that if you get a decent stride forward on the front foot, the umpire wouldn't give you.

 

[Zinzan]

Not if they're Javed Miandad batting in Pakistan

I think he meant that other way around, but yeah, Miandad being given LBW in Pakistan was about as commonplace as snow in Cairns.

 

[Rootfan]

Not if they're Javed Miandad batting in Pakistan

I realize this is partly tongue in cheek but Miandad's record is the perfect example. Bloke boosted his stats at home where Shakor Rana never gave him out lbw...16 point different in home-away averages. You could safely shave off at least 5 points from Miandad's average,

 

[Rootfan]

Fair point, & particularly against spinners whilst well forward. There's used to be an unsaid rule that if you get a decent stride forward on the front foot, the umpire wouldn't give you.

Yes exactly!

 

[vic_orthdox]

I realize this is partly tongue in cheek but Miandad's record is the perfect example. Bloke boosted his stats at home where Shakor Rana never gave him out lbw...16 point different in home-away averages. You could safely shave off at least 5 points from Miandad's average,

Not much difference between his home/away averages and a lot of Australian players in recent times.

Also shown to be false recently.

https://twitter.com/danbrettig/status/795479431049400321

 

[Zinzan]

Must admit, that surprises me. Seems it is a myth after all.

 

[Rootfan]

Not much difference between his home/away averages and a lot of Australian players in recent times.

Also shown to be false recently.

https://twitter.com/danbrettig/status/795479431049400321

Don't mean to be pedantic but this is why in my post I specified Shakor Rana. IIRC Miandad's was only ever given out once lbw when Shakor Rana was umpiring in a match and that was by the other umpire (it was either this or zero, can't remember from the top of my head). It is however a fact that most home umps in those days were biased...just some more so than the others.

 

[Zinzan]

There's no doubt Shakor Rana was a shocker... then against we had our own NZ version by the name of Fred Goddall; & Australia have had too many to even mention before the advent of neutral umpires :P

 

[Rootfan]

There's no doubt Shakor Rana was a shocker... then against we had our own NZ version by the name of Fred Goddall; & Australia have had too many to even mention before the advent of neutral umpires :P

Pretty much every team benefitted from home umpiring in that era. Pakistan had the most biased (all hail Shakor!), followed by Australia, West Indies, New Zealand, India and England.

 

[grecian]

People also forget the LBW effect when talking about current batsmen and stats. Because of DRS among other things umpires are much more ready to give lbws they never would have dreamed of giving all those years back. A batsman averaging 50 over 200 innings (assuming no not outs) would suddenly average about 45-46 if we were to add 20 more lbws to those stats(a reasonably conservative 1/10 innings.

This is a decent point, and all-in-all, it generally goes along with the ways umpires and the game try to keep the balance between bat-and-ball even, changes of LBW rule, pitch technology, a whole amount of factors which organically change. For such an old-fashioned game it remains quite fluid in this.

I mean the pitches in New Zealand and England were utter minefields in the 80s, but you had umpires like Dickie Bird, who were so resolutely "not outers" there would be some senior bowlers who just wouldn't bowl at their end.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Daniel Vettori is one I always thought would have taken a truckload more wickets with referrals for LBWs.

Plus NZ would have won the 1987 Boxing Day test. :P

 

[grecian]

Daniel Vettori is one I always thought would have taken a truckload more wickets with referrals for LBWs.

Plus NZ would have won the 1987 Boxing Day test. :P

I think it was a pretty dark time for conventional spinners between about the 70s and when DRS, and actually even before that, just better cameras to see what was out. Remember the camera angles were really bot even remotely behind the wicket because of how big cameras had to be, and of course there was times that there was only one camera for one end. So the umpires had a pretty good deal then, they could have been having Dharmasena type matches and no-one could prove it.

Emburey is someone I think would have had a much better career now, was very accurate and had a great arm-ball. Dilip Doshi maybe too, Tauseef Ahmed, but they may have bowled on pretty conducive pitches that would now be called raging turners. Obviously impossible to tell, and again with the way things level up, bat technology has made it so much easier to attack, plenty of these attacking shots against spinners nowadays would have gone straight in the air, if not middled, now some not middled balls go for 6.

 

[honestbharani]

Daniel Vettori is one I always thought would have taken a truckload more wickets with referrals for LBWs.

Plus NZ would have won the 1987 Boxing Day test. :P

In my time of watching cricket, I would have thought Kumble would be the bowler who would have benefitted the most from this. IIRC, he was the one who forced umpires to start giving folks LBW off decent front foot strides in the first place, even before DRS.

 

[Victor Ian]

malcolm marshall and richard hadlee were skiing downhill then in the era where **** all people averaged 50 and 35 was acceptable.

Why downhill skiing? Downhill skiing is hard. There's bumps and ice and dangerous speeds.

It's time a new phrase was used. Perhaps 'eating bacon'.

 

[Starfighter]

Why downhill skiing? Downhill skiing is hard. There's bumps and ice and dangerous speeds.
It's time a new phrase was used. Perhaps 'eating bacon'.

tbh that mightn't work for batsmen and bowlers of those cultures that don't eat bacon.

But yeah, downhill skiing never was my analogy for 'taking the easy route'. That guy was in the air for a full 1.5 seconds.

 

[BeeGee]

Why downhill skiing? Downhill skiing is hard. There's bumps and ice and dangerous speeds.

It's time a new phrase was used. Perhaps 'eating bacon'.

Nah, eating bacon is hard. I nearly choked to death on a bacon sandwich once. How about 'downhill observer'.

 

[marc71178]

People also forget the LBW effect when talking about current batsmen and stats. Because of DRS among other things umpires are much more ready to give lbws they never would have dreamed of giving all those years back. A batsman averaging 50 over 200 innings (assuming no not outs) would suddenly average about 45-46 if we were to add 20 more lbws to those stats(a reasonably conservative 1/10 innings.

So they're being dismissed 220 times in 200 innings then?

 

[marc71178]

I realize this is partly tongue in cheek but Miandad's record is the perfect example. Bloke boosted his stats at home where Shakor Rana never gave him out lbw...16 point different in home-away averages. You could safely shave off at least 5 points from Miandad's average,

Miandad played 126 Tests and Rana umpired in 15 of them. In those 15 games he scored 1034 runs at an average of 49.24. Considering that his career record is 8832 runs at an average of 52.57 I'm inclined to call this out as a big load steaming bullshit.

 

[Tec15]

Rootfan is the most obvious troll from Indian cricket fans forum yet and people still keep rising to his obvious bait.