The Kane Williamson Average Watch thread

[TheJediBrah]

so zinzan you're admitting steyn and mcgrath are greater than marshall and hadlee?

Good point this. Everyone always talks about how modern batsman's stats are inflated due to new bats, flatter wickets, smaller boundaries etc and that they aren't as good as older batsmen, but you don't often see people admit the reverse about bowlers.

Steyn is up there with Marshall and Hadlee obviously, and many would say McGrath is too.

The fact McGrath never had to bowl to the best batting side of his era (for reasons out of his control) flatters his statistics somewhat IMO.

lol @ saying Steyn is on the same level as McGrath, let alone better

 

[Flem274*]

The fact McGrath never had to bowl to the best batting side of his era (for reasons out of his control) flatters his statistics somewhat IMO.

uh huh

 

[Flem274*]

Good point this. Everyone always talks about how modern batsman's stats are inflated due to new bats, flatter wickets, smaller boundaries etc and that they aren't as good as older batsmen, but you don't often see people admit the reverse about bowlers.

cricket peaked when the boomers were young adults mate. players these days can never be as good. now shut up and discuss MODERN BATS

 

[Athlai]

Don't dodge Athers. You posted some stats without explaining yourself, & when questioned, you failed to respond, forcing me to make the assumption you were comparing those two.

I don't know what problem you have with me saying KW is our first truly WC batsman than Crowe, and because of that many Kiwis tend to overrate him. Mark Richardson suggesting he should average in the 60 is a classic example of this.

Look mate, I was prepared to come on here and explain my reasoning but don't act like you're winning points in an argument because it takes someone an hour or so to respond. It's bloody ludicrous.

I don't even know what you're on about regarding Crowe nor have I given any indication that I agree with Richardson.

If you personally feel the need that you were forced to do anything than maybe take a step back from the forum for a few days, because it's not the typical attitude I expect from someone I've gotten along so well with for years.

But KW is one of the highest run scorers at the age of 26 amongst some fairly lofty peers and the majority of those names only continued to approve into their late 20s and early 30s. I don't have a crystal ball, I'm not going to make any big dick predictions on Kane's final average, but assuming no terrible injury he will finish up our best ever without a doubt.

 

[Burgey]

Steyn is up there with Marshall and Hadlee obviously, and many would say McGrath is too.

The fact McGrath never had to bowl to the best batting side of his era (for reasons out of his control) flatters his statistics somewhat IMO.

The fact they never had to face McGrath is one of the reasons they were the best batting line up of his era.

 

[Zinzan]

uh huh

Yeah. it's generally harder bowling to better batting lineups. One of the strange quirks of cricket.

 

[indiaholic]

Steyn is around the McGrath level IMO. Would put them in the same tier.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah. it's generally harder bowling to better batting lineups. One of the strange quirks of cricket.

malcolm marshall and richard hadlee were skiing downhill then in the era where **** all people averaged 50 and 35 was acceptable.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Just realized that KW will never have an average as high as Adam Voges

 

[Zinzan]

Look mate, I was prepared to come on here and explain my reasoning but don't act like you're winning points in an argument because it takes someone an hour or so to respond. It's bloody ludicrous.

I don't even know what you're on about regarding Crowe nor have I given any indication that I agree with Richardson.

If you personally feel the need that you were forced to do anything than maybe take a step back from the forum for a few days, because it's not the typical attitude I expect from someone I've gotten along so well with for years.

But KW is one of the highest run scorers at the age of 26 amongst some fairly lofty peers and the majority of those names only continued to approve into their late 20s and early 30s. I don't have a crystal ball, I'm not going to make any big dick predictions on Kane's final average, but assuming no terrible injury he will finish up our best ever without a doubt.

Below is my post, followed by your response. I don't know how your response was relevant in any way whatsoever to what I had written. You just posted a stat mentioning 'this is how I compare', when I hadn't compared the two to start with. That's why I asked the question.. Nothing weird & nothing uncharacteristic at all. You then replied with a non-answer about not proving to things to me or something, so I asked again, saw you left 5 mins later, so assumed your leaving meant you were comparing those two.

Lol, I remember that hyperbole.

I'll be delighted if KW can finish up with a Test average in the late 40s when it's all said & done truth be told.

Kiwis tend to overrate him slightly based on the fact he's the first truly world class batsmen we've had since Crowe.

I quite like this as a way to compare

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Zinzan]

malcolm marshall and richard hadlee were skiing downhill then in the era where **** all people averaged 50 and 35 was acceptable.

Ok Flem, that's nice to know.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hadlee and Marshall bowled to some truly woeful Australian and English batting lineups. McGrath and Steyn have bowled to the best lineups in India, England (probably second best to the one in the 50s and 60s), South Africa, Pakistan, New Zealand and Sri Lanka's history. This fact is for some reason, never quite mentioned as a point in their favour.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Below is my post, followed by your response. I don't know how your response was relevant in any way whatsoever to what I had written. You just posted a stat mentioning 'this is how I compare', when I hadn't compared the two to start with. That's why I asked the question.. Nothing weird & nothing uncharacteristic at all. You then replied with a non-answer about not proving to things to me or something, so I asked again, saw you left 5 mins later, so assumed your leaving meant you were comparing those two.

omg let it go

 

[Zinzan]

Just realized that KW will never have an average as high as Adam Voges

Lol, he only joins every other Test batsmen in history across a meaningful number of innings in that predicament tbf. You could provided a more exclusive example of that

 

[Burgey]

Lol, he only joins every other Test batsmen in history across a meaningful number of innings in that predicament tbf. You could provided a more exclusive example of that

80 innings not meaningful mate?

 

[Zinzan]

omg let it go

Lol what are you on about...He'd clearly not understood why I'd ask for clarification. Hopefully that explains it and he can let it go.

 

[Shri]

Yeah well, you are over 60.

 

[Zinzan]

80 innings not meaningful mate?

Lol, Obviously I include Bradman,surely that goes without saying, but ty for the correction.

 

[Mike5181]

Hadlee and Marshall bowled to some truly woeful Australian and English batting lineups. McGrath and Steyn have bowled to the best lineups in India, England (probably second best to the one in the 50s and 60s), South Africa, Pakistan, New Zealand and Sri Lanka's history. This fact is for some reason, never quite mentioned as a point in their favour.

Keepers and tailenders are generally more competent with the bat these days as well.

 

[Zinzan]

Hadlee and Marshall bowled to some truly woeful Australian and English batting lineups. McGrath and Steyn have bowled to the best lineups in India, England (probably second best to the one in the 50s and 60s), South Africa, Pakistan, New Zealand and Sri Lanka's history. This fact is for some reason, never quite mentioned as a point in their favour.

So how you rank those 4 bowlers having said that?