Wastemen etc

[The Battlers Prince]

I've been unable to see any of the third test. But Lyon for ages has mainly bowled around the wicket and at the pads. I'm not sure who told him to but he lacks enough control to bowl that line and at the pace he likes to bowl. He's more of a challenge anytime he gets outside the line of the batsman.
He takes enough wickets for me but even before Smith he doesn't bowl controlled enough to tie up an end when that is needed.
Also he bowled really well at the start of the Australian season before the tests so hope he can get back to that form

 

[Top_Cat]

Lyon's done a job considering he's been the an off-spinner in one of the most inconsistent (sometimes ****ing embarrassing) batting eras for Australia in memory. Yeah sure, he hasn't spun out teams on day 5 and that's a concern but he's a product of team with the aforementioned random bats and talented young quicks who can't stay on the park for more than 10 Tests in a row so, unlike Warne, he can't rock up, know his exact role every time and boss the oppo. Today he could have 400 to play with, another game he'll be bowling at the end of day 1 with his team already in arrears, the quicks busting a gut to claw their way back so he has to bowl the old man role. All this while basically learning how to bowl off-spin at Test level, has played ****-all FC cricket even now. I like the O'keefe type but I simply don't agree there's anything in his bowling to suggest he'd have been a better option with the ball.

He's not and has never been slated as a world-beater. With Starc solid and Hazlewood rising, think we'll see a different Lyon from now on. Not enough to be sub-25 with the ball but he's still the best available.

 

[Spark]

I've been unable to see any of the third test. But Lyon for ages has mainly bowled around the wicket and at the pads. I'm not sure who told him to but he lacks enough control to bowl that line and at the pace he likes to bowl. He's more of a challenge anytime he gets outside the line of the batsman.
He takes enough wickets for me but even before Smith he doesn't bowl controlled enough to tie up an end when that is needed.
Also he bowled really well at the start of the Australian season before the tests so hope he can get back to that form

He started doing it because Clarke got frustrated with the line he was bowling from over the wicket (which was too straight and constantly angling into middle and leg stump), and he saw an opportunity on Australian pitches to try and use Lyon's extra bounce to get catches at short leg etc, as happened quite a bit during the twin Ashes series in 2013/4. He seems to have now turned that into a sort of safety net though, and Smith has forgotten what it was originally for because he really, really, really needs to be bowling with square leg in the ring. Infinitely frustrating seeing singles getting milked to that part of the field for no good reason.

 

[stephen]

For those who dislike Lyon - which other finger spinners have done better than him in Australia?

 

[Daemon]

Michael Clarke and Marcus North were more threatening Test match bowlers than this guy

 

[slippy888]

Mitchell Johnson

Where would you guys rank him in the all time great test match bowlers for Australia, would he make the top 20 list.

 

[slippy888]

He was a amazing bowler when he was on song

 

[fredfertang]

amongst left arm quicks he comfortably makes the top 20

 

[BoyBrumby]

Like the little girl with a curl right in the middle of her forehead, when he was good he was very, very good but when he was bad he was horrid.

With hindsight it seems madness he wasn't even in the squad for the 2013 Ashes, but at the time I can't recall too many demurring voices.

 

[Shri]

For those who dislike Lyon - which other finger spinners have done better than him in Australia?

Hauritz? Not sure.

 

[Howe_zat]

Australians on Johnson in 2013

Unfortunately I do think there is a distinct chance of Johnson playing at Brisbane. Especially if he does well in India, which he probably will the ****.

MJ should have had his Passport stamped no more tests. Pick a shield bowler to debut but not MJ.

I think MJ is still behind a few guys, surely the selectors have realised picking bowlers on ODI form is flawed. I'd like to think Siddle, Harris, Bird, and Chadd are ahead of MJ right now

I'd like to think there's a few more than that in front of him.

yeah, I was just trying to put on my 'Aussie dead**** selectors' hat, he wouldn't get near my side until about 10 guys were injured

Copeland, Hastings, Sandhu and just about anyone else.

Yeah aside from the fact he has proven time and time again he is an unreliable option, I just hate what the selection of Johnson gives to England - it gives the team and supporters someone to target. And when Johnson crumbles under the pressure, he brings the whole team down.

I see no reason why Bollinger shouldn't be picked over Johnson at this stage.

the thing i like about forkers (this is nothing to do with his slaparoo last night) is he is a competitor. some guys like johnsons you just cant trust them to turn up, but forkers even if he isn't the most talented bloke, he's someone you'd go to war with

I don't see what's wrong if Hilf if he's on song. At least his peaks are way more sustained than Johnson's.

McDermott as bowling coach is a massive plus when it comes to Hilfenhaus in general; I'd much prefer him to Johnson

I've never felt to so less enthused for an ashes series as this one. The return of Johnson actually makes me feel depressed when looking over the team sheet. I always thought, yeah our batting is a shambles, but at least Johnson wasn't near the team flinging them all over the shop

I could go on, the Brisbane Test thread is full of it

Edit: bonus Spikey

we don't want sayers we want mennie

[

 

[indiaholic]

Shows what we know lol. I shared the same opinion at that time.

 

[slippy888]

Robbie Frylinck

Serious thread here guys should Robbie Frylinck be playing international cricket for South Africa

 

[Furball]

amongst left arm quicks he comfortably makes the top 20

Haha this is such a bitchy comment.

I reckon Johnson retired because he couldn't hack being a boring bowler.

 

[Slifer]

Australian bowlers that I'd rank above him:

McGrath
Lillee
Lindwall
Miller
Davidson
Warne
Grimmett
O'Reilly
Gillespie

Others like Stuart Clarke, Ryan Harris, etc probably would've ranked higher but for injuries. So yes, M. Johnson definitely in the top 20 greatest Aussie bowlers.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Makes top 10 and bottom 10 as well. Only bloke who could manage that.

 

[Bijed]

I don't know about where I'd rank him compared to Aussie bowlers in general, but in my time of watching/following the Ashes he's behind only Warne in terms of making me notably more nervous when he was brought on to bowl. Even if he'd spent his previous spell bowling half-trackers both sides of the wicket, there was always that threat of him getting it right for a period, even if it was just 3-4 overs, and, if not knocking us out of the game, at least putting us significantly on the back foot.

 

[Blocky]

Great on his day, but not enough days to be an all time great.

 

[listento_me]

I'm thinking of Australian fast bowling greats and names like Lillee, Thompson, McGrath, Gillespie, Lee et al pop up. Would Johnson be top 20? Probably but mainly because Australia don't have 20 genuinely great fast bowlers imo but his level of consistency was too low to be included in an all time bowling line up.

 

[Burgey]

He was never dull, that's for sure.

I feel sorry for blokes who had to face him when he was on song like he was in the last Ashes out here. There was just nothing you can do about it when it's that quick and that accurate. And I feel sorry for the captains who had to put up with him when he was out of sorts, because he could be utter trash at times too.