*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016

[Jono]

England are 7 down, not 5.

England are playing Pakistan, not a non-Pakistan team.

And for your information, England are favourites with the bookies.

 

[Jono]

Like I'm all for Gambhiring, but the idea that this isn't evenly poised and Pak are well on top is a bit silly.

Odds:

Eng 1.96
Pak 2.68
Draw 8.2

 

[Howe_zat]

I usually agree and despise Gambhiring, but I genuinely think those odds underrate Pakistan. They're not exactly reliable but they're on top because they're playing well.

Woakes will need to play probably his best innings (and best innings for 5 years in Broad's case) to carry us into a first innings lead, and this new bowling attack looked shaky on day one. I think if it were Australia in this position and not Pakistan then they would be favourites, but based on reputation because Australia are not actually a better test team (outside of Australia) right now. Pakistan beat us comfortably in the UAE and while I don't expect this series to be exactly the same, this Test match is bearing a lot of the same signs right now:

England's attack looks good early on but the Pakistan middle order uses its strengths wisely, and Moeen is struggling. England can't pick Yasir and repeatedly get out for 20s and 30s after Root is out.

I said on Thursday that Pakistan's innings was very reminiscent of the second test in the UAE and now England's is as well.

 

[Jono]

It doesn't matter if you think one team will win or the other, the fact is both results are in play and if England won from here no one would flinch. Even if you think Pakistan should be shorter, unless you think they should be $1.40 or something, the match is quite clearly evenly poised based on every assessment.

 

[Howe_zat]

And fwiw I think the one argument that can never be taken seriously is 'it's x, x can find a way to lose from anywhere', because x can be literally any team in the history of any sport and some fan will have said it.

 

[Howe_zat]

It doesn't matter if you think one team will win or the other, the fact is both results are in play and if England won from here no one would flinch. Even if you think Pakistan should be shorter, unless you think they should be $1.40 or something, the match is quite clearly evenly poised based on every assessment.

Fair. I guess I have a bit less of a margin for 'evenly poised' to feel like an accurate description to me than 'all 3 results are in play'.

 

[Jono]

That's not the description I was using, because all 3 results were in play when England were 1 down, but the match was obviously not evenly poised.

I won't labour the point further than this, but I really can't see how you can pull someone up for calling this evenly poised when all objective assessments say either it is evenly poised, or England are favourites. You're in a minority on this one suggesting Pakistan are on top in the game overall.

 

[Jono]

And fwiw I think the one argument that can never be taken seriously is 'it's x, x can find a way to lose from anywhere', because x can be literally any team in the history of any sport and some fan will have said it.

Yes I agree with that.

 

[Shady Slim]

call me for flying off the handle here but the way this test pans out, and just this series in general, may decide the outcome of moeen's career, at least in the short term

 

[YorksLanka]

call me for flying off the handle here but the way this test pans out, and just this series in general, may decide the outcome of moeen's career, at least in the short term

should of already seen Woakes replace Finn in the line up for the future and yes quite possibly Ali too, having said that I still think he may be the #3 that England are desperately searching for..

 

[StephenZA]

Predictable great yorker...

 

[fredfertang]

That was terrible Stuart - three card trick or what?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Broad a full on number 11 these days.

 

[Jono]

So good, love when Wahab is up and about

 

[Compton]

should of already seen Woakes replace Finn in the line up for the future and yes quite possibly Ali too, having said that I still think he may be the #3 that England are desperately searching for..

Moeen isn't a top 6 batsman. He just isn't good/consistent enough.

 

[fredfertang]

Wondering whether Woakes has tried hypnosis - just not the same player as before

 

[Jono]

Haha Nasser going hard at Athers and Warne here for not being on the Lord's honours board

 

[Black_Warrior]

This is why I love Athers and Nasser.. Best commentators around..make Warne tolerable

 

[Howe_zat]

From the look of Finns batting here, do we think England will have a lead of 50 or 150?

 

[Howe_zat]

Hmm will have to be closer to 50.