*Official* English Football Season 2015-16

[Furball]

Hard to think what my all time England sidw would be actually: the Euro 96 side featured Ince, Platt and Gascoigne in midfield and McManaman and Sheringham playing off Shearer. Other than Scholes for Sheringham I can't honestly say that anyone from the 'Golden Generation' would make that side better. Controversially, I'd maybe be looking at Owen over Shearer.

I still say Fowler was the best of the 90s centre forwards but he never really did it in an England shirt, although he perhaps might have had he had the 15 months without a goal Shearer was afforded.

 

[harsh.ag]

Hard to look past Shearer for being a truly world class player IMO. Then you have the genius of Le Tissier who i'd personally put on a platform of his own. Scholes has to be mentioned, just ask any other midfielder of the last 20 years who they think is the best midfielder of their time and it usually comes back as Scholes. I always feel McManaman gets overlooked a bit due to the fact England always tried to shunt him in out of position.

Le Tissier was so skillful and so laidback, it was an amazing combo.

 

[Pothas]

Cole in for Pearce, then Ferdinand for Southgate. After that it gets more complicated, Gerrard can find a way in though.

 

[Furball]

I'd have Seaman, Neville, Cole, Ferdinand and Campbell as my goalkeeper and defence.

I don't think there is necessarily a place for Gerrard.

 

[grecian]

As I have often said the problem with all English players that through generally injury they have never really fulfilled expectation throughout my lifetime.

Why that should be is a fascinating thing, too many matches, possibly, poor lifestyle certainly, people that drink as much as Bryan Robson and Paul Gascoigne are generally going to be more injured than others, and importantly fail to recover from those injuries. As for Rooney an utter mess. Maybe a bit of bad luck too, Shearer was too dull for a bad lifestyle and the cruciate just happened. Owen reckons it was bad medical advice that screwd his hammys.

A Robson, 1982, Shearer before cruciate, Owen 1998, Gazza 1990-93, Rooney 2004, it would look pretty good I reckon. In the end though if you go over full career you possibly end up with Gerrard by default.

 

[GIMH]

Hard to think what my all time England sidw would be actually: the Euro 96 side featured Ince, Platt and Gascoigne in midfield and McManaman and Sheringham playing off Shearer. Other than Scholes for Sheringham I can't honestly say that anyone from the 'Golden Generation' would make that side better. Controversially, I'd maybe be looking at Owen over Shearer.

I still say Fowler was the best of the 90s centre forwards but he never really did it in an England shirt, although he perhaps might have had he had the 15 months without a goal Shearer was afforded.

The Euro 96 side was a better team than anything labelled 'Golden Generation' but they weren't all necessarily better players.

 

[Furball]

The Euro 96 side was a better team than anything labelled 'Golden Generation' but they weren't all necessarily better players.

I think that's definitely debateable. You don't play for 4 years in Serie A in the early 90s and hold the world record for transfer fees like David Platt did without being a damn fine player. McManaman held his own in a fine Real Madrid side that won the Champions League twice, Gazza was Gazza.

I think the likes of Platt and Gascoigne in particular can be under-rated because they don't really feature prominently on Premier League Years nostalgia pieces you get on Sky because they spent their peak years playing in Italy (and in Gazza's case, Scotland). Those peak mid 20s years also coincided with playing in a dreadful England team managed by Graham Taylor.

You think of someone like Lampard, you think of goals. He got 29 for England in 100+ games. Platt got 27 in 62, that's a record most strikers would be happy with.

 

[Ikki]

Lol, away back and **** over your Gerrard posters.

Gascoigne was a genius.

Not fit to shine Gerrard's boots, or Lampard's or Scholes'. Players who were consistently the best players in their position, in the world, for years.

I get it, the 90s team went further, but I don't think their players were as good as the 00s. The success is not a like for like comparison either.

Terry, Rio, A.Cole, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney were all World class players and had world class careers. It's not even worth the debate to put Gascoigne on the same level as them. Maybe it's because I'm not English, but I don't care for the Gascoigne nostalgia as it overrates him as a player. I also don't put as much weight on success at International level as I do with club level because it is such a small and unreliable sample, and it's not even the top level of football.

 

[grecian]

Not fit to shine Gerrard's boots, or Lampard's or Scholes'. Players who were consistently the best players in their position, in the world, for years.

I get it, the 90s team went further, but I don't think their players were as good as the 00s. The success is not a like for like comparison either.

Terry, Rio, A.Cole, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney were all World class players and had world class careers. It's not even worth the debate to put Gascoigne on the same level as them. Maybe it's because I'm not English, but I don't care for the Gascoigne nostalgia as it overrates him as a player. I also don't put as much weight on success at International level as I do with club level because it is such a small and unreliable sample, and it's not even the top level of football.

Twaddly nonsense from someone just to big up gerrard, Gazza and Platt both got transferred to at the time the biggest League in the World.

I do think Gazza was over-rated too, but he was 10 times technically the better player than Stevie G or Lampard.

Of course Furball is famously English.

 

[Furball]

Not fit to shine Gerrard's boots, or Lampard's or Scholes'. Players who were consistently the best players in their position, in the world, for years.

I get it, the 90s team went further, but I don't think their players were as good as the 00s. The success is not a like for like comparison either.

Terry, Rio, A.Cole, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney were all World class players and had world class careers. It's not even worth the debate to put Gascoigne on the same level as them. Maybe it's because I'm not English, but I don't care for the Gascoigne nostalgia as it overrates him as a player. I also don't put as much weight on success at International level as I do with club level because it is such a small and unreliable sample, and it's not even the top level of football.

You didn't move to Italy for enormous sums of money (Gascoigne cost Lazio £8.5m in 1991) in the early 90s unless you were a seriously good player.

I had the privelidge of watching Gascoigne for 3 years. The man was an absolute genius.

 

[Ikki]

You didn't move to Italy for enormous sums of money (Gascoigne cost Lazio £8.5m in 1991) in the early 90s unless you were a seriously good player.

I had the privelidge of watching Gascoigne for 3 years. The man was an absolute genius.

I agree. England will always have lots of quality players, and they'll go to top clubs for tonnes of money.

If Lampard, Scholes or Gerrard (or basically any of their world class players during the 00s/10s) wanted to move at their peak they'd be going to Real Madrid/Barca level clubs for ridiculous fees as well, which is even more impressive than going to Lazio TBF.

Twaddly nonsense from someone just to big up gerrard, Gazza and Platt both got transferred to at the time the biggest League in the World.

I do think Gazza was over-rated too, but he was 10 times technically the better player than Stevie G or Lampard.

Of course Furball is famously English.

The technical aspects of football extend to more than carrying the ball. Admittely, Gazza was much better at this than his midfield countrymen in the 00s. But they were better technically in other regards. And they were far better overall. If you actually break down their careers, I think it's pretty clear Gazza isn't on their level. Even their peaks to be honest; give me Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes' 5 best years over Gazza's 5 best.

 

[GIMH]

I think that's definitely debateable. You don't play for 4 years in Serie A in the early 90s and hold the world record for transfer fees like David Platt did without being a damn fine player. McManaman held his own in a fine Real Madrid side that won the Champions League twice, Gazza was Gazza.

I think the likes of Platt and Gascoigne in particular can be under-rated because they don't really feature prominently on Premier League Years nostalgia pieces you get on Sky because they spent their peak years playing in Italy (and in Gazza's case, Scotland). Those peak mid 20s years also coincided with playing in a dreadful England team managed by Graham Taylor.

You think of someone like Lampard, you think of goals. He got 29 for England in 100+ games. Platt got 27 in 62, that's a record most strikers would be happy with.

Debatable, sure. A composite XI would be interesting and we'd all do different ones. Pothas pretty much highlighted some of the key players from the GG that would have a shout earlier

 

[grecian]

I agree. England will always have lots of quality players, and they'll go to top clubs for tonnes of money.

If Lampard, Scholes or Gerrard (or basically any of their world class players during the 00s/10s) wanted to move at their peak they'd be going to Real Madrid/Barca level clubs for ridiculous fees as well, which is even more impressive than going to Lazio TBF.



The technical aspects of football extend to more than carrying the ball. Admittely, Gazza was much better at this than his midfield countrymen in the 00s. But they were better technically in other regards. And they were far better overall. If you actually break down their careers, I think it's pretty clear Gazza isn't on their level. Even their peaks to be honest; give me Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes' 5 best years over Gazza's 5 best.

You just never watched Gazza remotely even if at worst you think "carrying the ball" was his best technical attribute. Your just arguing for people you've seen against people you haven't, and because of your youth idols you are seeing more in all of them then there was.

The 80s was my yoof BTW, so I like Brooking, Brady and Hoddle better than all mentioned, but apart from Brady they probably aren't in the same class, obviously he wasn't English either. Yet I know I'm biased and accept that.

 

[Ikki]

You just never watched Gazza remotely even if at worst you think "carrying the ball" was his best technical attribute. Your just arguing for people you've seen against people you haven't, and because of your youth idols you are seeing more in all of them then there was.

The 80s was my yoof BTW, so I like Brooking, Brady and Hoddle better than all mentioned, but apart from Brady they probably aren't in the same class, obviously he wasn't English either. Yet I know I'm biased and accept that.

Admittedly, I didn't see Gazza in the 80s as I was too young but I remember the 90s fairly well and especially his transfer to Italy and onwards pretty clearly. And yeah, it's pretty clear to me his standout ability was his vision and particularly when carrying the ball. I'd say most people would say the same as well, especially in comparison to the 00s midfielders.

As I said before, they're not even close enough for this to be a worthwhile debate - whether you breakdown their achievements or their skills as individuals. Gascoigne couldn't hack it at the top level whereas Gerrard (and the others I've mentioned and you've ignored) thrived. If you think this is because of bias or something you're wrong. This is like comparing Sheringham to Henry, different levels mate and I actually think Teddy is closer.

 

[Niall]

Tuneeeeeeee (not really)


Bez, Shaun Rydr, Paul Oakenfield and Goldie and probably others doing an England euro pop song.

 

[Furball]

I agree. England will always have lots of quality players, and they'll go to top clubs for tonnes of money.

If Lampard, Scholes or Gerrard (or basically any of their world class players during the 00s/10s) wanted to move at their peak they'd be going to Real Madrid/Barca level clubs for ridiculous fees as well, which is even more impressive than going to Lazio TBF.



The technical aspects of football extend to more than carrying the ball. Admittely, Gazza was much better at this than his midfield countrymen in the 00s. But they were better technically in other regards. And they were far better overall. If you actually break down their careers, I think it's pretty clear Gazza isn't on their level. Even their peaks to be honest; give me Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes' 5 best years over Gazza's 5 best.

You've betrayed your ignorance with that comment.

 

[Furball]

Debatable, sure. A composite XI would be interesting and we'd all do different ones. Pothas pretty much highlighted some of the key players from the GG that would have a shout earlier

Yeah true. I just think it's interesting that the more thought I've given it the less likely I am to pick some of the golden boys. I had Beckham as a shoe-in for midfield initially, for example.

Balance needs to come into it as well, in terms of talent there's no doubt that Gerrard and Lampard were better than Ince but I'm struggling to think of an English holding midfielder as good as him.

 

[Ikki]

You've betrayed your ignorance with that comment.

Even in the 90s, where Serie A was the top league and had the money it still wouldn't rival a move during the 00s/10s to Real or Barca - or even the 90s, let's be real.

Imagine actually believing moving to Lazio was equal

. As I said, really good player, but clearly overrated.

 

[cpr]

No, Italy in 1990's was where to go. It was THE league to play in, no ifs, no buts. It's standing was beyond the Prem now, or Barca/Real. Its the league that had Gullit, van Basten, Voller, Rijkaard, Maradona, Klinsmann, Matthaus, Brehme, Papin, Hassler all went to....Bear in mind also that each team was limited to 3 foreign players, so for :Lazio to spend £8.5m on an injured Gazza in 91 (remember, Utd broke the British transfer record by signing Andy Cole for £7m in 95....), that shows how much they valued his talents.

80's Gazza was just something else, watching him play for Newcastle is still genuinely exciting nearly 30 years later. There's a youtube video of his goals knocking about and its spectacular. As others have eluded to, there's so little pre-92 footage of English players its criminal, so we only remember Platt at Arsenal, Gazza rolling around at 'Boro, Waddle with Sheffield Wednesday, Linekar as a mythical toe-bunger from days of yore. These were truely world class players, and Gazza was the cream of them. Come Euro 96 the Gazza we saw was probably about 50% the Gazza of the 80's. There's a reason why Fergie still to this day says he's the player he's truely gutted about missing out on, he was natural talent in abundance.

Sorry, but Gerrard isn't fit to lace his boots, and neither is Scholes really. In English football the only person I could possibly put above him in sheer electric skill on the pitch is Best.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah true. I just think it's interesting that the more thought I've given it the less likely I am to pick some of the golden boys. I had Beckham as a shoe-in for midfield initially, for example.

Balance needs to come into it as well, in terms of talent there's no doubt that Gerrard and Lampard were better than Ince but I'm struggling to think of an English holding midfielder as good as him.

Yeah if you do a composite 04/96 team you are spoiled for choice in the midfield. I choose 04 because i think that's the tournament the Golden Generation played its best football in, which does rid me of Ferdinand as an option unfortunately.

I'll have a go

Seaman

G Neville
Adams
Terry
Cole

Beckham
Ince
Gerrard
McManaman

Rooney
Shearer

That was way harder than I thought

Campbell should be in there? Probably the better CB over Terry circa 04. But **** it

Gerrard over Gascoigne I went back and forth over. Ultimately it was Furball that clinched it for me. Gerrard was always maligned as being not as good for country as club, but with an Ince next to him that wouldn't have been true. And I rated his England career anyway. Did Liverpool ever play them two together? Ince was spent by then anyway. Scholes is unfortunate too; I've no wish to reignite that debate, so let's all agree to disagree on that one in advance.

I fully expected to pick Owen but I remembered Rooney in those Euros. Shearer should have come out of retirement for it (he'd had a great season) and we could have had him coming on instead of Darius Vassell

Anyway I'd probably do it differently tomorrow. The centre backs and midfield are the ones troubling me most.