Greatest Limited Overs All-rounder of all time, tournament/voting thread

[J_C]

Imran Khan
Andrew Flintoff
Shane Watson
Jacques Kallis

Chris Harris
Sanath Jayasuriya
Greg Chappell
Kapil Dev

 

[honestbharani]

Jacob Oram vs Imran Khan
Carl Hooper vs Andrew Flintoff
Shakib Al-Hasan vs Shane Watson
Andrew Symonds vs Jacques Kallis

Chris Harris vs Heath Streak
Lance Klusener vs Sanath Jayasuriya
Greg Chappell vs Viv Richards
Kapil Dev vs Abdul Razzaq

This.

 

[vcs]

Symonds was just not that effective as a bowler to be considered even close to kallis as an all-rounder. Hard to pick one solely as batsman either imo considering the dependable longevity of kallis.

Kallis just didn't have Symonds' impact in ODIs regardless of what the stats say. Symonds' bowling may not look much statistically (like Sachin's) but he'd occasionally break a threatening partnership, or take a stunning catch or effect a run-out. Easily Symonds in ODIs for me. The guy was a terrifying cricketer in an already great Aussie ODI lineup.

Jacob Oram vs Imran Khan
Carl Hooper vs Andrew Flintoff
Shakib Al-Hasan vs Shane Watson
Andrew Symonds vs Jacques Kallis

Chris Harris vs Heath Streak
Lance Klusener vs Sanath Jayasuriya
Greg Chappell vs Viv Richards
Kapil Dev vs Abdul Razzaq

 

[morgieb]

Jacob Oram vs Imran Khan
Carl Hooper vs Andrew Flintoff
Shakib Al-Hasan vs Shane Watson
Andrew Symonds vs Jacques Kallis

Chris Harris vs Heath Streak
Lance Klusener vs Sanath Jayasuriya
Greg Chappell vs Viv Richards
Kapil Dev vs Abdul Razzaq

Most kinda straightforward. Wish that Harris/Streak and Klusener/Jayasuriya was swapped though as both of the latter >> the former.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Symonds is also arguably the greatest odi fielder ever. That counts for a lot.

 

[viriya]

Kallis just didn't have Symonds' impact in ODIs regardless of what the stats say. Symonds' bowling may not look much statistically (like Sachin's) but he'd occasionally break a threatening partnership, or take a stunning catch or effect a run-out. Easily Symonds in ODIs for me. The guy was a terrifying cricketer in an already great Aussie ODI lineup.

Jacob Oram vs Imran Khan
Carl Hooper vs Andrew Flintoff
Shakib Al-Hasan vs Shane Watson
Andrew Symonds vs Jacques Kallis

Chris Harris vs Heath Streak
Lance Klusener vs Sanath Jayasuriya
Greg Chappell vs Viv Richards
Kapil Dev vs Abdul Razzaq

Symonds > Kallis as a batsman is understandable, but that argument for Symonds as a "partnership breaker" with a 37+ bowling average is pretty weak imo. Pretty much all "partnership breakers" are just bad bowlers that everyone's surprised by when they get a wicket. Since we can't really compare their fielding (Kallis was a great slip fielder), if you define an all-rounder as battingRating * bowlingRating, it's near impossible to argue for Symonds over Kallis imo. Basically cos while Symonds might have been > Kallis as a batsman, Kallis was >> Symonds as a bowler.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Symonds > Kallis as a batsman is understandable, but that argument for Symonds as a "partnership breaker" with a 37+ bowling average is pretty weak imo. Pretty much all "partnership breakers" are just bad bowlers that everyone's surprised by when they get a wicket. Since we can't really compare their fielding (Kallis was a great slip fielder), if you define an all-rounder as battingRating * bowlingRating, it's near impossible to argue for Symonds over Kallis imo. Basically cos while Symonds might have been > Kallis as a batsman, Kallis was >> Symonds as a bowler.

Great cover fielders /outfielders are far more valuable than slip fielders in LOIs. Vice versa in tests.

 

[Dan]

Jacob Oram vs Imran Khan vs Ian Harvey
Carl Hooper vs Andrew Flintoff vs Ian Harvey
Shakib Al-Hasan vs Shane Watson vs Scott Kremerskothen
Andrew Symonds vs Jacques Kallis vs Ian Harvey

Chris Harris vs Heath Streak
Lance Klusener vs Sanath Jayasuriya vs Ian Harvey
Greg Chappell vs Viv Richards vs Ian Harvey
Kapil Dev vs Abdul Razzaq vs Ian Harvey

 

[viriya]

Great cover fielders /outfielders are far more valuable than slip fielders in LOIs. Vice versa in tests.

Based on more recent data, being a great fielder doesn't bring a lot more to a team when compared to a good fielder. It's only when a player is a poor fielder does it start to matter. Batting and bowling is far more valuable (especially in ODIs).

 

[weldone]

I don't remember much of Heath Streak's batting

 

[marc71178]

Based on more recent data, being a great fielder doesn't bring a lot more to a team when compared to a good fielder. It's only when a player is a poor fielder does it start to matter. Batting and bowling is far more valuable (especially in ODIs).

What data is this? I'm assuming you're referring to your extremely flawed catches thing yet again?

Jacob Oram vs Imran Khan
Carl Hooper vs Andrew Flintoff
Shakib Al-Hasan vs Shane Watson
Andrew Symonds vs Jacques Kallis

Chris Harris vs Heath Streak
Lance Klusener vs Sanath Jayasuriya
Greg Chappell vs Viv Richards
Kapil Dev vs Abdul Razzaq

 

[mr_mister]

I don't remember much of Heath Streak's batting

neither does anyone, but 13 fifties @ just under 30 is quite a feat for a frontline quick

 

[StephenZA]

The 1 hundred and 14 fifties didn`t help Shaun Pollock much.. (sorry I thought Pollock was more of an allrounder than Jayasuriya)

 

[viriya]

The 1 hundred and 14 fifties didn`t help Shaun Pollock much.. (sorry I thought Pollock was more of an allrounder than Jayasuriya)

I thik if he was in a weaker and was forced to move up he would've ended with a great record cos he def had talent.

 

[doesitmatter]

Symonds vs Kallis argument..

1) Batting : Symonds , his batting position of 5th or 6th down is far more an important position than Kallis #3 position in ODIs..Symonds performed in this crucial position as an enforcer so well..So i picked Symonds
2) Bowling : Strike rate and economy in ODI is more important ..look it up.. not much of a difference between both..Symonds for me
3) Fielding...fuggeddaboudit..Symonds all the way..

 

[viriya]

Symonds vs Kallis argument..

1) Batting : Symonds , his batting position of 5th or 6th down is far more an important position than Kallis #3 position in ODIs..Symonds performed in this crucial position as an enforcer so well..So i picked Symonds
2) Bowling : Strike rate and economy in ODI is more important ..look it up.. not much of a difference between both..Symonds for me
3) Fielding...fuggeddaboudit..Symonds all the way..

So your argument for bowling is that SR and Econ are more important, and Kallis does better on both in addition to being more of a wicket taker, so you pick... Symonds? ook
And apparently #3 is less important than #5/#6 now? News to me. Just because you need a finisher doesn't mean you don't need a builder.

imo Kallis is a class above Symonds as an all-rounder. He made double the runs + wickets, had 5 50 run + 3 wkt matches vs 0 for Symonds.. it's really not even close:
cricrate | Jacques Kallis vs Andrew Symonds - ODI All-Round

 

[smash84]

yeah people really underselling Kallis if they think Symonds is a better ODI all rounder than him

 

[Noble One]

neither does anyone, but 13 fifties @ just under 30 is quite a feat for a frontline quick

With the exception of Andy Flower, he was arguably Zimbabwe’s best limited over’s batsman (and leader of the bowling attack) in the early 2000's.

 

[weldone]

Symonds was a filler in the bowling department. He shouldn't be in the all-rounders discussion. He could have been in the batting discussion.

The likes of Cronje and Steve Waugh were better ODI bowlers than Symonds imo.

 

[doesitmatter]

On the other hand , Symonds fits perfectly as one-day allrounder..explosive batting at a crucial position..btw his famous innings against Pak in 2003 was a "builder" one..5-10 overs of bowling and depending on the pitch spin or pace and finally as a fielder of high quality with ability to take great catches and a rocket arm..I will take Symonds..

I am a fan of Steve Waugh ..How in the world Shakib won that round? His record is better because of minnow bashing. no?