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ODI GOAT at cricket.com.au

watson

watson

Banned
Since great ODI players seem to be the flavour of the month on CW I thought that I'd post the link to a pretty nice voting competion at cricket.com.au

ODI GOAT: Bevan v Hussey | cricket.com.au

The current vote is for Bevan V Hussey, quite a difficult choice. Bevan currently leads 51% to 49%.

Incidently, the videos that go with each player description are worth watching.
 
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watson

watson

Banned
viriya said:
weird they have batsmen and bowlers together.. unfair on bowlers imo.

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/odi-...~/media/696BD5A920BD47248CED9AFAC3DA1D85.ashx
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Looks like they've split the players into four groups. Two groups are made up of just batsman, one group just bowlers, and the fourth group just allrounders where they're counted wicketkeepers like Gilchrist as allrounders.

The only thing I disagree with is that the spinners have been thrown in with the allrounders rather than with the bowlers for some reason. Despite this discrepency most of the contests will be between players of similar categories.

Still interesting.
 
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Shady Slim

Shady Slim

International Coach
lol mahela is pounding dilshan and that's a joke

mahela was an exceedingly mediocre ODI player but was given more plaudits than he should have received due to exploits in the other formats, while dilly is imo one of the best ODI allrounders ever
 
viriya

viriya

International Captain
Shady Slim said:
lol mahela is pounding dilshan and that's a joke

mahela was an exceedingly mediocre ODI player but was given more plaudits than he should have received due to exploits in the other formats, while dilly is imo one of the best ODI allrounders ever
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I feel like ODI voting is always skewed by people adding on Test accomplishments. The whole thing becomes nonsensical fast.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
TheJediBrah said:
Lee's almost a certainty for top 5. If you can name 20 better ODI bowlers then has off to you.
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You're right here. He's a very underrated ODI bowler. I'd choose McGrath, Garner, Wasim and Donald ahead of him but he's definitely top 5. Personal preference might see me include Ambrose ahead of him but it's a lot harder to argue he's not top five than to argue he is top five.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Watson said he was top 20 material, but not definitive top 5. Never gave a 'quicks only' condition, but let's assume that was there.

19 pretty good ODI fast bowlers:
In something vaguely resembling order:
1. Joel Garner
2. Wasim Akram
3. Glenn McGrath
4. Shane Bond
5. Shaun Pollock
6. Waqar Younis
7. Allan Donald
8. Curtly Ambrose
9. Michael Holding
10. Mitchell Starc
11. Richard Hadlee
12. Andy Roberts
13. Dennis Lillee
14. Chaminda Vaas
15. Nathan Bracken
16. Mitchell Johnson
17. Andrew Flintoff
18. Malcolm Marshall
19. Kapil Dev

Where does Lee slot into that? I reckon he slots somewhere between ~5 and ~13, personally. Not definitively better than any in that range (i.e. you could make arguments either way), but definitely a class above Vaas onwards in ODIs (that being said, I have no real idea how to rate DK in ODIs). Also worthwhile noting that Vaas onwards would be the guys to drop out of the list entirely if we included spinners (Warne, Murali, Vettori, Saqlain + 2 of Hogg/Swann/Ajmal probably cracking in there)

So I reckon watson's claim that he's Top 20 is pretty fair; he's definitely in that group, but somewhat fits into the ATG-but-not-GOAT-contender range. I don't think he's a clear-cut Top 5 though.
 
viriya

viriya

International Captain
Dan said:
Watson said he was top 20 material, but not definitive top 5. Never gave a 'quicks only' condition, but let's assume that was there.

19 pretty good ODI fast bowlers:
In something vaguely resembling order:
1. Joel Garner
2. Wasim Akram
3. Glenn McGrath
4. Shane Bond
5. Shaun Pollock
6. Waqar Younis
7. Allan Donald
8. Curtly Ambrose
9. Michael Holding
10. Mitchell Starc
11. Richard Hadlee
12. Andy Roberts
13. Dennis Lillee
14. Chaminda Vaas
15. Nathan Bracken
16. Mitchell Johnson
17. Andrew Flintoff
18. Malcolm Marshall
19. Kapil Dev

Where does Lee slot into that? I reckon he slots somewhere between ~5 and ~13, personally. Not definitively better than any in that range (i.e. you could make arguments either way), but definitely a class above Vaas onwards in ODIs (that being said, I have no real idea how to rate DK in ODIs). Also worthwhile noting that Vaas onwards would be the guys to drop out of the list entirely if we included spinners (Warne, Murali, Vettori, Saqlain + 2 of Hogg/Swann/Ajmal probably cracking in there)

So I reckon watson's claim that he's Top 20 is pretty fair; he's definitely in that group, but somewhat fits into the ATG-but-not-GOAT-contender range. I don't think he's a clear-cut Top 5 though.
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You are overrating bowlers of the 70s and 80s because of their Test reputations and the fact that it was much easier to have a good bowling record then.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
viriya said:
You are overrating bowlers of the 70s and 80s because of their Test reputations and the fact that it was much easier to have a good bowling record then.
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I think there's some truth to this and sometimes it's easy to also underestimate great (GOAT) ODI players who were perhaps not as successful in tests. Brett Lee and Shane Watson come to mind for Australia in particular. Very top echelon ODI players in their respective roles but not near GOAT in tests.

Dan said:
So I reckon watson's claim that he's Top 20 is pretty fair; he's definitely in that group, but somewhat fits into the ATG-but-not-GOAT-contender range. I don't think he's a clear-cut Top 5 though.
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I don't think Brett Lee is the GOAT, and I don't have him in my ATG ODI team, but I struggle to see why he isn't top 5.

FWIW I agree absolutely with your top 3, (Garner, McGrath and Wasim). Garner for his ridiculous un-hittablilty, McGrath for just consistent brilliance. How many times did I miss the first 20 overs of an ODI and come in and see McGrath with ridic figures like 8-4-2-14? Wasim for his old ball skills and economy. After that I think you could mount a case that Lee was as good as, or better than most of the other bowlers you've listed (Bond is an interesting one, such a shame…)
 
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