***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

[Marius]

Also just a correction cause see all the news articles are trying to claim that if stephen gets picked he and jimmy would be the first father/son combo. That is inaccurate but the SA media seems to want to forget that SA played international cricket before 1992. The Pollocks and Nourse were before the Cook pairing.

IOL says the Cooks will become the sixth pair if Stephen gets a debut: Cook called up to Proteas squad | IOL

 

[Oduodu]

I just feel you can't drop the quota thing for the tests. Because then the quotas in the franchise and 3 day competition means nothing.

 

[Marius]

I just feel you can't drop the quota thing for the tests. Because then the quotas in the franchise and 3 day competition means nothing.

OK, say tomorrow Rabada tears a hamstring in training, a dumbbell falls on Piedt's head in the gym, and Bavuma slips in the shower and breaks his collarbone. The only two POCs in the squad are Amla and Duminy - Ok, they'll both play. Who do you bring in to ensure that the 4 POC quota is kept?

 

[Oduodu]

When they are available they must be chosen. If not then that's a different story.

 

[Marius]

When they are available they must be chosen. If not then that's a different story.

Why not bring in another POC then?

Say Piedt is out, you can play Leie. If Rabada is out then play Mbhalathi or Phehlukwayo, for example.

 

[Oduodu]

That's fine then. Like I say if they are not playing in A first class match already and is there then choose them like with vilas. The match hadn't started in port elizabeth.

 

[Marius]

That's fine then. Like I say if they are not playing in A first class match already and is there then choose them like with vilas. The match hadn't started in port elizabeth.

OK, so there should always be four POCs in the Test side, regardless of whether all four are actually Test quality?

 

[91Jmay]

No, and no one has ever said that. Typical disingenuous reading of what the quota system actually is, which is to give POC the edge when they are on evening footing with white players.

I will also repeat, van Zyl got 3 Test matches as an opener despite looking like a bloke who'd won a competition. Don't give me the excuse of quotas when awful hacks like him are being picked.

 

[Marius]

No, and no one has ever said that. Typical disingenuous reading of what the quota system actually is, which is to give POC the edge when they are on evening footing with white players.

I will also repeat, van Zyl got 3 Test matches as an opener despite looking like a bloke who'd won a competition. Don't give me the excuse of quotas when awful hacks like him are being picked.

I support redress.

I just think that saying that we have to have four POCs in the side at all times, with no regard given to cricketing concerns is silly and damaging. In the last Test sense prevailed, and we picked a team with three POCs on cricketing terms (I still think Piedt should have played).

Affirmative action and so on doesn't mean you pick someone cause they are black - if a black person or a white person are of equal ability you pick the black person. And then that is not even hard and fast - if the POC shows promise they should be picked. When Makhaya Ntini made his Test debut he was not one of the best three seamers in South Africa, but he had the potential to become a great, which he did.

 

[91Jmay]

So please point to anyone arguing the opposite of that or a situation where that has happened in a test match.

 

[Marius]

So please point to anyone arguing the opposite of that or a situation where that has happened in a test match.

Um, read up, and see what Oduodu was arguing.

SA should always play four POCS, is what he said.

 

[91Jmay]

No he was saying keep the quota system in place, where the target to have 1 Black African and 3 other POC in the team should be kept. As things stand all 4 POC are worth their place in the side, with Bavuma the most unsure but he is still more certain of his place on merit than a couple of the other batsmen.

 

[Marius]

No he was saying keep the quota system in place, where the target to have 1 Black African and 3 other POC in the team should be kept. As things stand all 4 POC are worth their place in the side, with Bavuma the most unsure but he is still more certain of his place on merit than a couple of the other batsmen.

OK, we'll agree to disagree.

EDIT: I think the target of four POCs should be kept, but it should be a target and not a quota.

 

[Garson007]

Quotas are a non-issue, imho. Both Rabada and Bavuma have potential to still be there in a decade; I'd be incredibly surprised if another black player doesn't deserve a debut between now and then based on merit. There's always been a good pool of Coloured and Indian players and that pool is only going to keep on ticking along.

If we're going to discuss administrative issues - let us at least discuss things that are actually problematic.

 

[Marius]

Quotas are a non-issue, imho. Both Rabada and Bavuma have potential to still be there in a decade; I'd be incredibly surprised if another black player doesn't deserve a debut between now and then based on merit. There's always been a good pool of Coloured and Indian players and that pool is only going to keep on ticking along.

If we're going to discuss administrative issues - let us at least discuss things that are actually problematic.

I agree one hundred percent - just think it's problematic to say that there has to be four POCs at all times in the starting XI.

We have lots of talented POCs just below the Test side, in five years time this will be a non-issue I think.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

True our biggest issue seems to be lack of quality leadership or a core to the team and the lack of stability as half the team could be dropped at any time... Vilas, qdk, stiaan, faf, viljoen, morris are all stuggling.

The big problem CSA has is their identification of future players and investinf in them too long instead of looking domesticallybfor players have been performing... For example neil mckenzie could have added value imho especially after smith retired. While elgar still establishes himself.

Aiden markram is CSA's next moonshot. Rabada seems to be a success but i wont forget Parnell.

 

[91Jmay]

I agree it shouldn't be an absolute red line (if Rabada/Bavuma were injured and there are no black players close to contention then don't pick any, sure), but seems to me that certain people with agenda's (not on this forum, more broadly) use the quota's as a convenient excuse.

 

[Marius]

I agree it shouldn't be an absolute red line (if Rabada/Bavuma were injured and there are no black players close to contention then don't pick any, sure), but seems to me that certain people with agenda's (not on this forum, more broadly) use the quota's as a convenient excuse.

Yeah, for sure.

And Rabada and Bavuma have both shown what they can do if they get the backing they need.

Still not sure Bavuma is a long-term Test prospect, but Rabada certainly is, he'll get 400 Test wickets if he remains uninjured.

 

[91Jmay]

Bavuma may or may not work out, but yeah Rabada is a certainty to be a world class fast bowler.

 

[Howe_zat]

Erm guys for the very last match they played 8 white players and it was a crap selection

Like, the very last match

If Viljoen had been coloured and Peidt white we'd never have heard the end of the quota harping right through it.