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***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
I wonder how the Stokes 258 will go down now since the game ended in a draw and saw another double century?

On Day 2 social media went crazy and were hailing it as one of the greatest knocks. I myself thoroughly enjoyed it and thought it was a brilliant knock, but I wonder if it will be remembered as Botham 1981 or the Sehwag 200s since it didn't end in a victory?
Yeah, I've been kinda thinking the same.........the way the test played out afterwards has certainly taken the buzz I had on day 2 away.

But really it shouldn't.........it is still one of the great destructive innings and what eventuated doesnt change that.
 

indiaholic

International Captain
Wonderful batsman though.. Was constantly complaining about him not playing well enough in India. Hope we see a string of good scores from him.

Are there religious problems in SA? Quite a few of my friends do "look like him" and I happen to live in one of the more communally sensitive parts.. Don't see how that is sign of his strength of character.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Still don't see why the timing was a good idea unless SA always had a captaincy by committee approach.
He's basically said that is the case:

"I had chatted to a few of the guys in the team before this, so I don't think it had come as a massive shock," he added. "We have a very tight leadership team: myself, AB, Faf [du Plessis]. AB is very able and a brilliant leader and we will all follow similar goals. Whether I'm pulling the rope, or AB is pulling the rope or Dale [Steyn] is pulling the rope, as long as someone is going in the right direction, we all will go with him."

Its almost like you guys who are commenting on this have not read his comments at all!
 

indiaholic

International Captain
He's basically said that is the case:

"I had chatted to a few of the guys in the team before this, so I don't think it had come as a massive shock," he added. "We have a very tight leadership team: myself, AB, Faf [du Plessis]. AB is very able and a brilliant leader and we will all follow similar goals. Whether I'm pulling the rope, or AB is pulling the rope or Dale [Steyn] is pulling the rope, as long as someone is going in the right direction, we all will go with him."

Its almost like you guys who are commenting on this have not read his comments at all!
Read the statement that came out yesterday from the board. Did not have this part in it. Fair enough then.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I've been kinda thinking the same.........the way the test played out afterwards has certainly taken the buzz I had on day 2 away.

But really it shouldn't.........it is still one of the great destructive innings and what eventuated doesnt change that.
Yeah but you know what ultimately gets remembered or not is often due to unknown and uncontrollable factors. I remember Nathan Astle played a blistering knock of 222, and at that time everyone was talking about. Now about 15 years later, it's not mentioned as much, despite being a great innings. I suspect it has to do with NZ not winning that game? I reckon this innings by Stokes might go down that path as well.

Still don't see why the timing was a good idea unless SA always had a captaincy by committee approach.
I think in the recent past, we are seeing a lot of these mid series retirements, resignations, announcements. I think this is more a reflection of the times. There were these unwritten rules back in the days about not making such announcements in the middle of the series but slowly that is changing and I think it's just a reflection of different generation and their own way of thinking.

I think a lot of players like Swann, Dhoni, Amla who have made these calls, have placed more importance on what is better for the team from here onwards.

Amla obviously feels that South Africa have a better chance of winning this series with someone else at the helm, and that takes precedence over any unwritten code in his view.

Personally, I am in support of this now. I think teams these days are so used to playing under different captains, in different formats, I don't think it will make that much of a difference.

For example, Kohli is already test captain, if Dhoni decides to retire from ODI and T20 suddenly, Kohli taking over won't be that big of a deal because the team is already used to him as a captain.
 

OverratedSanity

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I don't know about that. The Astle 222 is still very fondly remembered by lots of people in my experience. Stokes' knock will be the same. Sure, if England won, it'd be truly unforgettable, but it was still amazing enough to be remembered for a long time.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Also will be remembered even more if Stokes becomes a genuine gun. Astle was a good player. But if Stokes becomes a very good world class test cricketer that knock will be spoken about a lot.
 

Gnske

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It will be. Heck, his first three tons so far have all been memorable and quite remarkable in their own ways.
 

longranger

U19 Cricketer
One of the best Test matches in recent times. Stokes' 258 was an ATG knock (top 100) because of its sheer audacity and beauty. Let's not forget Bairstow's 150* and Amla's 201 which ordinarily would have gotten way more praise. And after scoring ~1200 runs in the first innings by both, the match could have actually had an exciting finish had it not been for the Bairstow-Moeen partnership.

Games like these show the gulf between Test and limited overs cricket.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I would definitely put Stokes' knock ahead of Astle's given a) the quality of the attack (even without Steyn it's not bad) and b) the fact that the match was still alive while for Astle all the pressure was off.
 

Burgey

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I don't know about that. The Astle 222 is still very fondly remembered by lots of people in my experience. Stokes' knock will be the same. Sure, if England won, it'd be truly unforgettable, but it was still amazing enough to be remembered for a long time.
Yeah, but you know. He was a Kiwi and all. It's hard to get excited about it. Though the Astle > Ponting/ Waugh/ Border/ Gilchrist thread which will no doubt arise because of the mention of his name as dinner time approaches in the Shaky Isles should be pretty amusing.
 
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Stefan9

International Debutant
I think it's a bit harsh on CSA to say they wanted Amla because he's not white.

It's true that he was initially a reluctant leader but he absolutely has leadership qualities, aside from being one of the first men on the team sheet. It's also probably a factor that they wanted to reduce AB's workload, which is definitely something that should be taken into consideration.

TBH any one of Amla, AB or Faf seem equally capable.

I think this decision has been more about personal accountability more than anything; the team hasn't delivered the expected results so he's fallen on his sword.
Amla never wanted the captaincy. He was coerced into applying for it by CSA. If he is never asked by CSA to apply he doesn't apply for it...

Also Lorgat is a big big liar. Claiming he never forces anyone to do anything at the pressconference yesterday. He forced the team and selectors to pick philander above abbot for the world cup semi....

Still don't see why the timing was a good idea unless SA always had a captaincy by committee approach.
The team since smith's retirement has been run by a committee sort of with the senior guys of amla,ab,faf,morkel and steyn.
 

Marius

International Debutant
I think this is better for the Test side though. I get the feeling Amla is a good leader, but more of a behind-the-scenes, advisory type of guy, rather than the face, if that makes sense. AB is a bit more similar to Smith, which will serve the team better I think. Having AB be the skip also hopefully means they'll stop asking him to keep.

A middle order of Amla at three, AB at four, and Faf at five is pretty solid I think. If Bavuma can keep up his work from CT and we can solve the opening problem SA will have a solid batting unit.

Think Cook should open in the short-term with Elgar, and Van Zyl and Rossouw should be the first reserves for the batting spots.

Think Duminy should be sent back to his franchise for a while, he hasn't done anything in Tests for ages now.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Amla never wanted the captaincy. He was coerced into applying for it by CSA. If he is never asked by CSA to apply he doesn't apply for it...
"You don't look like me in this world without being firm on what you want to do."
 

indiaholic

International Captain
I think the assumptions about him not wanting the captaincy are related to him stepping down from the ODI and Dolphins roles.. Plus wasn't there some drama whereby Amla was a late entrant to the captaincy race? # expressed interest only after ABDV said he wanted it or some such..
 

indiaholic

International Captain
Don't for a moment think he was forced into it though.. People may have tried to convince him considering that AB was keeping wickets at that time and Faf was noob.
 

indiaholic

International Captain
I also remember an instance where he was the vice captain of the side and refused to take up the captaincy when De Villiers was injured or something.
 

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