***Official*** Sri Lanka in New Zealand 2015

[Pratters]

Recommend Art Vanderlay instead of Vandersay.

 

[Dan]

Gotta remember than Watson played as opener when he had the best form of his life for ~ 2 years, and when he played at 6-7 he was starting his career

You're right though, of course. I just want Symonds in the team because I love him.

Yeah I don't disagree -- I just like the balance he brings at the top.


So, uhh, New Zealand huh?

 

[NZTailender]

More facts about Michael "The Greatest Finisher in the History of ODI cricket" Bevan:

Runs in boundaries per 1,000 balls faced:

Bevan 204, Taylor 370. Massive difference

Corey Anderson, in 35 ODI games, had hit twice as many sixes as Bevan hit in his entire career (23).

Martin Guptill today hit a third as many sixes as Bevan hit in his entire career. If Bevan faced 150 balls every innings it would still take him 30 innings to equal the six count of Guptill's innings today.

As clever as he was, Bevan simply could not hit it well enough to get in an ATG ODI XI.

Jesus Christ. Did you ever actually watch any of Bevan's 195 innings? Have you ever actually watched a game of cricket or do you wait 10 years before reading the scorecard then decide that whoever hit more sixes was therefore the better player.

Just so everyone knows, Shahid Afridi>>>>Viv Richards.
Deadset you'd rate Shaun Tait better than McGrath because the former could go over 150ks and that's what brings wicketz

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Deadset you'd rate Shaun Tait better than McGrath because the former could go over 150ks and that's what brings wicketz

Now that's just stupid.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Why is it that people who love moneyballing are so bad with numbers?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Jesus Christ. Did you ever actually watch any of Bevan's 195 innings? Have you ever actually watched a game of cricket or do you wait 10 years before reading the scorecard then decide that whoever hit more sixes was therefore the better player.

Just so everyone knows, Shahid Afridi>>>>Viv Richards.
Deadset you'd rate Shaun Tait better than McGrath because the former could go over 150ks and that's what brings wicketz

I don't think he's serious.

- Guy makes stupid post quoting a bunch of meaningless statistics, then is explained why said stats are irrelevant and idiotic
- Guy goes on to make another long post quoting another bunch of pretty much identical but slightly different irrelevant statistics

not the actions of a sound mind. Or a non-troll.

 

[NZTailender]

Now that's just stupid.

So is thinking because someone can clear the fence more than another guy he's therefore the better player? Bevan found gaps and for most of his career accumulated runs and chipped away at the total and won games. On a handful of occasions, out of 195 in total, it didn't come off. I grew up in Australia, watched a lot of Tri-Series from the early 90s into the 2000s, and Bevan sticks in my mind as being the guy that always seemed to be there, and no game against Australia was dead until he was out.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

The statistics are only irrelevant to the closed minded.

In a hitter's position, you go with the guy who hits sixes at 17 per 1,000 before the guy who hits at 2 per 1,000. Every time.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

So is thinking because someone can clear the fence more than another guy he's therefore the better player? Bevan found gaps and for most of his career accumulated runs and chipped away at the total and won games. On a handful of occasions, out of 195 in total, it didn't come off. I grew up in Australia, watched a lot of Tri-Series from the early 90s into the 2000s, and Bevan sticks in my mind as being the guy that always seemed to be there, and no game against Australia was dead until he was out.

All of which are good arguments for Bevan being an excellent player. They're not good arguments for picking him at 6 in an ATG team though.

 

[Pratters]

I have a friend who thinks Yousuf Pathan is amazing because he is a 'big hitter' who can hit sixes. Keep trying to explain to him he isn't.

 

[NZTailender]

The statistics are only irrelevant to the closed minded.

In a hitter's position, you go with the guy who hits sixes at 17 per 1,000 before the guy who hits at 2 per 1,000. Every time.

What is a hitters position? At the start of the inning or at the end? See ODIs have changed so much so has the definition of roles.

Bevan was a finisher. He found gaps and got runs. Hitting lots of sixes doesn't mean much if you hole out going for your third when your team needs you to stick around and close things off.

You really really do not understand cricket.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The statistics are only irrelevant to the closed minded.

In a hitter's position, you go with the guy who hits sixes at 17 per 1,000 before the guy who hits at 2 per 1,000. Every time.

Ah, that's where I went wrong. I thought you picked the guy and the team who would win more games of cricket.

 

[Pratters]

In ODIs taking singles and twos and threes was more important than hitting fours and sixes. Woolmer had computed teams which do the most running between wickets win. That's not true for t20 but not sure about current odis. I would say running is still important in current odis though less so.

 

[NZTailender]

All of which are good arguments for Bevan being an excellent player. They're not good arguments for picking him at 6 in an ATG team though.

So when the fielders are back waiting for a mi**** six, you want the guy who might get the six or might get out over the guy who will continuously pick up easy runs? jfc

 

[NZTailender]

Ah, that's where I went wrong. I thought you picked the guy and the team who would win more games of cricket.

Yeah don't pick match winners just pick guys who hit more 6zzzzzzz

 

[Pratters]

Also, Bevan could hit quality fours as and when necessary. A player doesn't have to keep hitting sixes to succeed.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

What is a hitters position? At the start of the inning or at the end? See ODIs have changed so much so has the definition of roles.

Bevan was a finisher. He found gaps and got runs. Hitting lots of sixes doesn't mean much if you hole out going for your third when your team needs you to stick around and close things off.

You really really do not understand cricket.

No. 6 is a hitter's position. Usually you don't come in until 35-40 overs are up. I don't want a guy coming in to nurdle the ball into gaps at the end of an innings. I want a guy who can score at 120-130+ over the last 5 overs. Not 72.

Everyone's responding to me as if I was saying Bevan was ****. I'm not saying that at all. All I'm saying is that if my top 5 is Guptill, Gilchrist, Williamson, Ponting and Hussey I want 6 down to be able to clear the fence regularly, because their average is unlikely to matter as much as their strike rate after that top 5 has set the platform. That's perfectly logical and for the life of me I can't see what the problem with it is.

If our teams are identical save for that I've got Ross Taylor and Chris Cairns facing overs 40-50 and you've got Michael Bevan, my team will beat yours 95% of the time.

Because of this I don't care if Bevan averaged 75. Taylor hit eight times as many sixes as Bevan. If it was 40% more I'd say that maybe Bevan didn't need to hit sixes as often and that they were probably about the same. But not eight times more.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

So when the fielders are back waiting for a mi**** six, you want the guy who might get the six or might get out over the guy who will continuously pick up easy runs? jfc

I want the most runs. I don't care if I lose 2 or 3 extra wickets.

 

[vcs]

Actually there would be a pretty strong correlation



lets also compare the boundary-hitting capabilities of a guy that played on the MCG etc without boundary ropes brought in to one playing on matchboxes in NZ.

With bats 3x the size.

Against far inferior bowling.

Good point. Someone should do a statistical analysis on which grounds/countries are best for six-hitting, pretty sure Australia would be the worst and NZ would be right up there.

Six-hitting rate is a poor metric. How many did Sachin hit in the later part of his career after back/elbow issues? Didn't stop him from making plenty of runs at close to 90 SR.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Good point. Someone should do a statistical analysis on which grounds/countries are best for six-hitting, pretty sure Australia would be the worst and NZ would be right up there.

Six-hitting rate is a poor metric. How many did Sachin hit in the later part of his career after back/elbow issues? Didn't stop him from making plenty of runs at close to 90 SR.

Tendulkar was an opener. Hashim Amla's six rate is low too but that doesn't matter either.

You can't tell me that a guy who once scored 33 off 80 balls, with one boundary, to guide his team to an 8 run loss was an expert at finding the fence when it mattered.