How do Williamson/Root/Smith compare to Tendulkar/Ponting/Lara?

[Slifer]

You're being very selective. How do the records of the 90s greats at age 25 compare to Starc, Hazlewood, Boult, Southee et al? The current young eneration is taking over from the bowler drought of the 00s so we're now in a period that will be looked upon as far greater by future fans than it is seen by current fans. Youtube is going to show '10s bowlers with nice cricinfo averages hooping it at good or even express pace on roads.

Btw, Anderson isn't as good as Donald but as we are all hopefully aware his career record does not reflect his quality.

I'm going to end with a hand grenade. The great bowlers of the 90s had far easier pitches to bowl on than modern bowlers and it inflates their records. Look at the ****ing **** heaps in Australia Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson and now Hazlewood and Starc take all those wickets on. The touring bowlers who do well there now deserve a lot of credit too.

Even New Zealand and England roll out Roady McRoads more often than not these days.

I look forward to hurrrring at the next generation when Kane Williamson and Steve Smith are old, fat and hated commentators. "This young batsman looks ok but he's not doing it against Steyn, Hazlewood, Starc or Boult. Now those guys were real bowlers!"

A few random bowlers from the 90s at 25.

Waqar: 44 tests 227 wkts @ 21 sr 39.9
Pollock: 16 tests 56 wkts @23 sr 55

I will concede that bowling was probably easier in the 90s but then logically, that would support my argument that batters now have it a lot easier than did their 90s counterparts. And let's face it kw and co are performing outstandingly but nothing they've done is unprecedented or really that exceptional. Sachin averaging 58 odd in the 90s was. Lara's 99 series was. Steve Waugh's 95 series vs Amby /walsh was.

 

[Athlai]

Added a poll. I think Williamson stands a realistic chance of surpassing Ponting. Root maybe just a smidge lower and Smith a bit behind the rest.

 

[smash84]

I think I get what Slifer might be hinting at

With BC Lara, Tendy, a lot of times you saw stuff that you thought was special even at the beginning of their careers. It looked special too. Watching Wasim or Warne bowl you would get that feeling that you are watching some special talents.

I guess you get that feeling watching ABDV, (haven't seen too much of KW). Maybe by the end of their careers they might give that aura but then its that subjective thing called "special talent" is what people are looking for and they don't find it that much.

Does that make sense?

 

[Bahnz]

A few random bowlers from the 90s at 25.

Waqar: 44 tests 227 wkts @ 21 sr 39.9
Pollock: 16 tests 56 wkts @23 sr 55

I will concede that bowling was probably easier in the 90s but then logically, that would support my argument that batters now have it a lot easier than did their 90s counterparts. And let's face it kw and co are performing outstandingly but nothing they've done is unprecedented or really that exceptional. Sachin averaging 58 odd in the 90s was. Lara's 99 series was. Steve Waugh's 95 series vs Amby /walsh was.

Probably not for Waqar though, given how much he played on the sub continent. That guy was the Mike Tyson of fast bowlers (minus the personality disorder): small, powerful, terrifying and sadly past his peak at 25.

 

[BeeGee]

I think he has a year averaging 20 odd, which no literally everyone doesn't have.

He's already had it.

Williamson averaging 27 in 2012

 

[Energetic]

To be honest, with improved bats, batting friendly pitches and quality of Cricket, neither of these three players today are anywhere near Sachin, Lara and Ponting. Smith, Williams and Root have inferior techniques compared to those 3. They are not facing bowlers such as Wasim, Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar, Vass, Pollock, McGrath etc no way someone like Smith with that awful technique of his would've thrived against such bowlers. Also, Smith seems to be a flat track bully, and struggles when the ball is doing something.

 

[Slifer]

I think I get what Slifer might be hinting at

With BC Lara, Tendy, a lot of times you saw stuff that you thought was special even at the beginning of their careers. It looked special too. Watching Wasim or Warne bowl you would get that feeling that you are watching some special talents.

I guess you get that feeling watching ABDV, (haven't seen too much of KW). Maybe by the end of their careers they might give that aura but then its that subjective thing called "special talent" is what people are looking for and they don't find it that much.

Does that make sense?

Exactly. People seem to jumping down my throat about the bowling comparison. They've neglected the second part of my opening argument. Kw and co's careers aren't over yet, until then comparisons are futile. If for some reason Russia and the U.S got pissed off at each other and the world ended right now, who would be remembered more Kw, root, Smith or srt/bcl??

 

[Dan]

Apparently Steyn, Hazlewood and Anderson aren't as good as Kenny Benjamin

 

[Burner]

A bit of a jumping the gun scenario is what we have here. But the truth is that for a player with the temperament of KW, the only way to go is up. I will bet on KW surpassing Ponting.

 

[smash84]

Exactly. People seem to jumping down my throat about the bowling comparison. They've neglected the second part of my opening argument. Kw and co's careers aren't over yet, until then comparisons are futile. If for some reason Russia and the U.S got pissed off at each other and the world ended right now, who would be remembered more Kw, root, Smith or srt/bcl??

Well if the world was destroyed then there would be nobody left to remember anybody

 

[Slifer]

And apparently Hazelwood and Anderson are better than Mcgrath/Donald. Also Ashwin and Herath make Warne and Murali look like rank amateurs

 

[Slifer]

Well if the world was destroyed then there would be nobody left to remember anybody

True but I'm pretty sure that when the aliens take over they'll remember the names Brian Lara and Sachin tendulkar and be like "KW who?"....

 

[Athlai]

True but I'm pretty sure that when the aliens take over they'll remember the names Brian Lara and Sachin tendulkar and be like "KW who?"....

Big Daddy Overlord.

 

[Flem274*]

A few random bowlers from the 90s at 25.

Waqar: 44 tests 227 wkts @ 21 sr 39.9
Pollock: 16 tests 56 wkts @23 sr 55

I will concede that bowling was probably easier in the 90s but then logically, that would support my argument that batters now have it a lot easier than did their 90s counterparts. And let's face it kw and co are performing outstandingly but nothing they've done is unprecedented or really that exceptional. Sachin averaging 58 odd in the 90s was. Lara's 99 series was. Steve Waugh's 95 series vs Amby /walsh was.

*two, not a few, one of whom has a record similar to Hazelwood

Tonight I'll check the others if I cbf

 

[cnerd123]

And apparently Hazelwood and Anderson are better than Mcgrath/Donald. Also Ashwin and Herath make Warne and Murali look like rank amateurs

#StrawmanAlert

Ashwin in India is pretty beastly tho. Having seen Murali operate in SL too, I'll stick my neck out and say that Ashwin isn't that much easier to face, if at all. ABDV's knocks in the recent series were fantastic IMO.

 

[honestbharani]

Lords of hyperbolic posting from both sides here.


For me, the 90s bowlers overall were better and I still don't think any of these 3 have shown the levels of batsmanship we saw from SAchin and Lara at the same age. Having said that, this is not like the 2000s when the bowling standards were ridiculously low (bar Steyn in the later half and McWarne/Murali in the first half). I think a combination of the emergence of some really good bowlers (guys like Harris will never be given the credit he deserves because of his late start and relatively short career) as well as how extreme the whole home advantage situation is being taken by almost all teams around the world, means that these 3 batsmen have faced extremely challenging conditions, esp. away from home and will continue to do so. I am gonna agree with whoever said that these 3 will be below BCL/Sachin with perhaps KW being able to nudge above Ponting in a few years.


All that said, I think Kohli is the most Ponting-esque player of this generation and I will be very surprised if he doesn't make this conversation along with the 3 guys mentioned, if not surpass a couple of them in a few years.




EDIT: Autocorrect made "lots" as "lords" in the opening sentence of the post. Gonna leave it there for the giggles.

 

[Slifer]

I actually agree with the Kohli sentiment. He's the one to watch imo.

 

[Slifer]

#StrawmanAlert

Ashwin in India is pretty beastly tho. Having seen Murali operate in SL too, I'll stick my neck out and say that Ashwin isn't that much easier to face, if at all. ABDV's knocks in the recent series were fantastic IMO.

Ashwin in India and only India is tough to face but overall not in the Murali class (at least not yet) and surely the spin stocks from the srt era are far superior to now.

 

[cnerd123]

Murali Warne Kumble...then who? Saqlian briefy. Occasionally MacGill. Dan V. Bhajji. Boje and Adams. Giles. Kaneria. Did the West Indies even have a spinner?

In between we had Swann, and currently we have Ashwin, Herath, Lyon, Yasir, and even Shakib. Add to that ocassionally brilliant performances from the likes of Mishra, Bishoo, Tahir, Jadeja...while its weaker, the gap isnt as great as you are making it out to be.

 

[Slifer]

Murali, Warne, McGill, Saqlain,Mushy, Vettori, Kumble etc. That you and others here don't see the obvious gap in bowling class between now and the srt era is telling. Are we seriously comparing Imran tahir and bishoo and Ashwin to the above? Especially the all timers Murali and warne?