***Official*** South Africa in India 2015

[honestbharani]

In India? Ashwin doesn't need a dustbowl.. he proved in SL that he just needs a typical subcontinent wicket.. not a 4th day pitch on the 1st day. This is the equivalent of serving up a greentop to a team that's already weak vs seam bowling imo.

But ideally it is when teams neutralize their own advantage, isn't it? Remember Jo'burg and Sree running through RSA on a wicket with juice. IF you have the better quality bowlers on one side and a pitch that aids them too much, it ends up negating said advantage for that team. It happened here to an extent, to be fair, but RSA's batsmen did not capitalize and seemed to have lost the battle mentally even before they went out to bat both innings.

I don't understand what we're supposed to do with this information.

Rub it in those players' fans' face obviously...

There is a little bit of argument amongst the SA pundits. But really there is acceptance of the fact that this was India's best chance of winning so it not surprising.

What they are saying is we need to try produce our own Ashwin so that India would be less likely to produce such turners

As I said above, think if the pitch turns too much, it negates India's own advantage when playing at home, just like how a total seamer can negate RSA's advantage when we play them there.

Just checked the score, did the pitch just completely fall apart or something?

Nope, but both teams' batsmen did.

 

[Daemon]

If you prepare a wicket that seams day 1 in the subcontinent it just burns out to become a complete road days 2,3,4 and 5.

Yeah, spot on. If you have grass on a wicket in India, it holds the pitch together and then after a nice Day 1 of swing and bounce, it becomes a road like what you said. Doesn't even break up on the last few days. It's whats happened to most Ranji wickets not in the South for the previous couple of seasons (not really the current one) and why dibbly dobby medium pacers were king.

The closest that India comes to producing a 'perfect' test wicket is at the Wankhade imo (at least what it used to be like). Good bounce early on, runs on offer because it's not slow and low, breaks up day 3 onwards.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I wonder if it's one of those instances where if you see the opposition collapse in a heap while fielding, and then you go into bat with trepidation, at least at a subconscious level and create pressure for yourself? When Kohli and Pujara were batting at the start of Day 3, there were no demons in the pitch and they were playing quite well and looked well set for at least a 270 plus score. Once Kohli got out and India collapsed, I wonder how much that effected the mindset of SA batsmen, especially the inexperienced lot among them.

 

[Gob]

****ing Dharmacena

 

[Furball]

Yeah, spot on. If you have grass on a wicket in India, it holds the pitch together and then after a nice Day 1 of swing and bounce, it becomes a road like what you said. Doesn't even break up on the last few days. It's whats happened to most Ranji wickets not in the South for the previous couple of seasons (not really the current one) and why dibbly dobby medium pacers were king.

The closest that India comes to producing a 'perfect' test wicket is at the Wankhade imo (at least what it used to be like). Good bounce early on, runs on offer because it's not slow and low, breaks up day 3 onwards.

The only subcontinental pitches I have an issue with are ones like we got in the 4th Test last time England toured. Absolutely no bounce or movement for the bowlers at all and the wickets were so slow that scoring runs was a real struggle as well. Just makes for absolutely hopeless cricket.

Subcontinent's probably a wee bit more toss dependent than elsewhere as well but that's just unfortunate IMO. Have no problem with massive turners, half of the 'problem' with those wickets is batsmen with inadequate techniques and temperament to score runs. Certainly from the little I saw of this Test, I didn't expect to wake up with the game having finished. I thought India would pile on 400+ then roll South Africa.

 

[the big bambino]

Well then, looks like tradition needs to go and get ****ed.

Except the tradition of India producing bunsens to nullify the likes of Steyn of course. You're ok with that tradition I see. It never gets old seeing jingoists blow raspberries at the game's traditions though. Not a bit. There is only one reason you do it: Your are humiliated by your team's many historical embarrassments. That is the sole unedifying reason. You aren't cricket's version of a romantic Cuban revolutionary stickin' it to the man and his traditions. You offer nothing better as an alternative and love those "traditions" that satisfy your crude nationalism anyway.

If you prepare a wicket that seams day 1 in the subcontinent it just burns out to become a complete road days 2,3,4 and 5.

Really? Not even at Wankhede ...? So pitches sometimes turn into roads. Well duh. Sometimes they turn into ball tearers when every possible result is at risk on the last day.

I wasn't making a point about the inexact art of pitch preparation. All cricket fans understand the desirability of producing a pitch catering for all the game's skills. Even closet traditionalists like Shri I'd guess. When you prepare a pitch that seams early in the expectation to break up eventually you can honestly say you've made an attempt to represent all the game's skills with an opportunity and a challenge. Can you say that when you produce a bunsen from ball one? The pace men were passengers in this game as even the chest beaters here acknowledge when they break from their internet rioting over their team's win or justifying the dubious intent obtaining it.

So it rather looks like doctoring when the pitch you prepare just happens to nullify the skill your opponent most relies. A pitch made for a team not for the game's skills. It looks like it because it is. So no more justifications or counter points to those I never raised thank you jingoists and apologists! Just reflect, understand, admit and stfu.

 

[Midwinter]

Saw a bit of the game on the first day with Tahir and Rabada bowling in India's first innings.

Thought the game would be over in 2 1/2 days on that pitch.

 

[Jono]

Except the tradition of India producing bunsens to nullify the likes of Steyn of course. You're ok with that tradition I see. It never gets old seeing jingoists blow raspberries at the game's traditions though. Not a bit. There is only one reason you do it: Your are humiliated by your team's many historical embarrassments. That is the sole unedifying reason. You aren't cricket's version of a romantic Cuban revolutionary stickin' it to the man and his traditions. You offer nothing better as an alternative and love those "traditions" that satisfy your crude nationalism anyway.



Really? Not even at Wankhede ...? So pitches sometimes turn into roads. Well duh. Sometimes they turn into ball tearers when every possible result is at risk on the last day.

I wasn't making a point about the inexact art of pitch preparation. All cricket fans understand the desirability of producing a pitch catering for all the game's skills. Even closet traditionalists like Shri I'd guess. When you prepare a pitch that seams early in the expectation to break up eventually you can honestly say you've made an attempt to represent all the game's skills with an opportunity and a challenge. Can you say that when you produce a bunsen from ball one? The pace men were passengers in this game as even the chest beaters here acknowledge when they break from their internet rioting over their team's win or justifying the dubious intent obtaining it.

So it rather looks like doctoring when the pitch you prepare just happens to nullify the skill your opponent most relies. A pitch made for a team not for the game's skills. It looks like it because it is. So no more justifications or counter points to those I never raised thank you jingoists and apologists! Just reflect, understand, admit and stfu.

wahhh?

 

[hendrix]

It's fine to play to your strengths, and complaining about it is garbage, obviously. Just that from a viewing perspective I prefer spin bowlers who use drift and topspin and a touch of (planned) variation over dart throwers, in the same way that I prefer Tim Southee's bowling over Jesse Ryder's.

Jadeja was more lethal than Ashwin here, in the same way that Ryder would be more effective on certain slow seaming wickets in England.

The better team for the conditions won so there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[the big bambino]

wahhh?

Oh ffs. What do you need help with?

 

[Jono]

No its "wahhhh?" not "waahhhtt?"

I understood what you said. Its just an unnecessarily angry wahhh.

 

[aussie]

1st test review thoughts

South Africa

Well like most the previous IND tours I've seen with SA during their # 1 rein in 2008 & 2010, they obviously knew they were going to get a real turning IND pitch at some point - arguably more so in this test series since that's the only way IND were going to stay competitive with them.

For like 80% of this match - up to about early parts of SA 2nd innings, this game was like de ja vu to that Mumbai 2000 test between these two teams - 1st Test: India v South Africa at Mumbai, Feb 24-26, 2000 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo - just that nobody for SA played Kallis/Boucher type inning's this time around like in 2000.

I found SA test selection after they Duminy & M Morkel were ruled out injured very surprising. I'm also certain that since re-admission SA have never played a test match with so much spin options & from a historical context you would probably have to go back to the early 1900s when SA had Aubrey Faulkner, Bert Vogler & R Schwarz in the same team - so highlight how weird of an occurrence this was for SA.

Surely they should have played that guy Bavuma for extra batting security, especially are Duminy was ruled out. I've heard some SA fans outside these parts suggest he is around the squad mainly as a quota player & a better option from SA domestic cricket may have been picking a pure opener like Andrew Puttick or Reeza Hendricks & letting S Van Zyl bat down the order.

Still think SA have what it takes to win the serious overall & come back just like England did in 2012 once Duminy/M Morkel are fit & Steyn recovers from groin strain. Just go back to 6 bats + Vilas + 3 quicks + 1 spinner.

Will be interesting to see who SA leave out between Morkel/Philander/Rabada though. Certainly think Tahir should play over Harmer - especially with Duminy/Elgar being more than capable supporting spinners.

India

Nothing much to say, prepared a turning pitch to support their strengths like they have done many times before & won. Would be surprised if Dhawan is not dropped however & Saha looks way out of place @ # 6 at test level.

 

[Contra]

The quality batsmen showed that you can score runs, the pitch was fine, there was reverse for the pacers and so the pacers were hardly nullified. India aren't as good against spin as they were previously, and SA's success against spin is overrated IMO, not to mention half their batsmen are new so it's not surprising they don't know how to deal with it.

Quality spinners vs average batsmen against spin = low scoring tests in India.

 

[Jono]

Yeah many saffer players hadn't played a test in India before

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

So it rather looks like doctoring when the pitch you prepare just happens to nullify the skill your opponent most relies. A pitch made for a team not for the game's skills. It looks like it because it is. So no more justifications or counter points to those I never raised thank you jingoists and apologists! Just reflect, understand, admit and stfu.

Funny how Australia and England can't produce turning pitches when sub-continent teams tour. Almost like they're trying to nullify the skill that their opponent most relies on. Or maybe it's because having a wide variety of pitches is good for cricket.

 

[Contra]

I also like the suggestion that the ball has to "seam" up front for the pacers to come into play, maybe if the pacers knew how to reverse and mix up slower balls/cutters on such pitches they wouldn't feel "out of the game".

 

[hendrix]

Quality spinners vs average batsmen against spin = low scoring tests in India.

it's not a simple as "quality spinners".

It's the specific type of spinner. Jadeja is an absolute behemoth on a pitch like this but he's rubbish on other pitches, even if there's turn available.

 

[Contra]

it's not a simple as "quality spinners".

It's the specific type of spinner. Jadeja is an absolute behemoth on a pitch like this but he's rubbish on other pitches, even if there's turn available.

Nah, Jadeja took wickets on all 4 matches against Australia, if the pitch has even a bit of turn AND Jadeja has SUPPORT (which he didn't have overseas), he's as useful a bowler as any. Because even a little bit of turn makes his natural variation that much more deadly, all of a sudden one turns and one doesn't and the batsmen just has no clue because the bowler isn't doing much different, so you can't actually "pick" him at all.

 

[aussie]

it's not a simple as "quality spinners".

It's the specific type of spinner. Jadeja is an absolute behemoth on a pitch like this but he's rubbish on other pitches, even if there's turn available.

Ye Jadeja doing well on India pitches that turn is no different to when bowlers V Raju, R Chauhan, S Joshi, A Kapoor for were made to look extra dangerous due to pitch conditions when IND won basically invisible in the 1990s/early 2000s at home. Although in general he is a slightly better bowler than all of them.

 

[aussie]

The quality batsmen showed that you can score runs, the pitch was fine, there was reverse for the pacers and so the pacers were hardly nullified. India aren't as good against spin as they were previously, and SA's success against spin is overrated IMO, not to mention half their batsmen are new so it's not surprising they don't know how to deal with it.

Quality spinners vs average batsmen against spin = low scoring tests in India.

How is it over-rated? Since readmission unless i'm mistaken they have the best record of any non SC team in IND/PAK/SRI.