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***Official*** India in Sri Lanka 2015

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OverratedSanity said:
If our bowlers get gassed after 2 tests, forget 5 bowlers, just hit the ****ing gym.
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Nonsense, When was the last time any of Australia, SA, NZ or England played with only 4 specialist bowlers? India is the only team that doesn't use 5 bowlers DESPITE the fact that India's bowlers are INFERIOR overall in non-subcontinental conditions.

Personally I don't feel as though we need 5 bowlers in the subcontient (maybe UAE if we ever play there cuz of flat pitches). But overseas India simply will not win test matches without 5 bowlers to balance the attack, either that or we rob Steyn somehow.
 
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OverratedSanity said:
We've had this debate before :p

I believe if we don't win with 4 terrible bowlers, we won't win with 5.
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It's not about terrible bowlers, it's simply about balance, to be able to keep up intensity over longer periods of time by sharing bowling workload like most other teams in the world do. India's batting line up, despite it's faults, is still it's strong point, so what we need is a bowling attack that gives us the best chance of picking up 20 wickets (not 10). Sure with favourable conditions and 4 bowlers India might bundle a team out once but they can't do it twice in the same match, and anyone who watched India overseas in the recently passed tours should know and have seen this.
 
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OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Also, how do you explain the fact that Bhuvi was completely broken after 2 tests in England despite the fact that we played 5 bowlers in those two tests anyway. People are looking for an easy thing to point at for the overseas losses imo.
 
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OverratedSanity said:
Also, how do you explain the fact that Bhuvi was completely broken after 2 tests in England despite the fact that we played 5 bowlers in those two tests anyway. People are looking for an easy thing to point at for the overseas losses imo.
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I just explained this in my previous post if you scroll up,lol. It was in response to the other guy.

Bhuvi didn't get tired because Dhoni overbowled him, he got tired because he scored runs on top of bowling. The theory of playing Binny was legit, but ultimately Binny wasn't going to contribute as a bowler to really count as a 5th bowler, we really should have played Ashwin instead.
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Anyway it's simple, theoretically with Binny India had 5 bowlers, the idea was right, but unfortunately Binny's bowling is simply too limited, for him to be effective he needs swinging/helpful conditions, but when you have helpful conditions you don't bowl Binny, you bowl your main bowlers, hence Binny barely bowled despite being picked as that 5th bowler/all rounder.

Secondly and more importantly Bhuvi ended up contributing with the bat in the first 2 test matches, which resulted in him not only bowling, but batting out extended time periods, so he was on the field for more than he should have been. That will obviously take it's toll on anyone.

Lastly Bhuvi wasn't finished by the 3rd test, he bowled 37 overs with 10 maidens and picked up 3 wickets with an eco rate of less than 3 in the first innings.
 
cnerd123

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OverratedSanity said:
Also, how do you explain the fact that Bhuvi was completely broken after 2 tests in England despite the fact that we played 5 bowlers in those two tests anyway. People are looking for an easy thing to point at for the overseas losses imo.
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As mentioned, Binny barely bowled. You can play 10 bowlers, makes no difference if you bowl 1 guy into the ground anyways.

Literally every other test team plays 4 bowlers + batsmen who can bowl or an allrounder:

Pak = Hafeez pre-banning
SL = Mathews
BD = Shakib; or when they do the 8 batsmen thing, then Mominul/Mahmadullah
SA = Duminy, Elgar
Eng = Stokes, Root
NZ = Anderson/Neesham, Kane
WI = Samuels
Zim = Masakadza

So either we get Kohli/Vijay/Dhawan to up their part-time bowling game, or we play Ashwin at 7 and 4 bowlers after him. Having only 4 bowlers doesn't cut it for longer series. Especially given they are pretty much crap already. We don't need to enter the second half of a tour with bowlers who are crap and tired.
 
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OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Really doubt Bhuvi running out of gas had anything to do with his batting. And really, if we had a decent option for a fifth bowler I'd be shouting from the rooftops too, but we really don't.
 
OverratedSanity

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***** said:
As mentioned, Binny barely bowled. You can play 10 bowlers, makes no difference if you bowl 1 guy into the ground anyways.

Literally every other test team plays 4 bowlers + batsmen who can bowl or an allrounder:

Pak = Hafeez pre-banning
SL = Mathews
BD = Shakib; or when they do the 8 batsmen thing, then Mominul/Mahmadullah
SA = Duminy, Elgar
Eng = Stokes, Root
NZ = Anderson/Neesham, Kane
WI = Samuels
Zim = Masakadza

So either we get Kohli/Vijay/Dhawan to up their part-time bowling game, or we play Ashwin at 7 and 4 bowlers after him. Having only 4 bowlers doesn't cut it for longer series. Especially given they are pretty much crap already, so last thing we need is to enter the second half of a tour bowlers who are crap and tired.
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I get all that, but virtually all of those teams suck balls overseas as well. I just don't think the 5th bowler stuff is this magic solution like people have been saying. I doubt it'd improve ****all overseas. Our frontline bowlers are just that ****.
 
cnerd123

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Nah it's not a magic bullet. But it will help. Not just overseas either too - even for these long tours at home.

I feel 5 bowlers is essential with modern day cricket schedules. Just not enough time to let players recover properly in between games anymore. The frontline 4 bowlers need someone to share the overs with.

Really hope Ashwin at 7 works out.
 
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OverratedSanity said:
Really doubt Bhuvi running out of gas had anything to do with his batting. And really, if we had a decent option for a fifth bowler I'd be shouting from the rooftops too, but we really don't.
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Okay so lets see Bhuvi's contributions on that England tour

First test

India first innings - Bats out 149 balls for 58 runs for the 10th wicket
India first innings (bowling) - Bowls almost 31 overs taking 5 wickets, pick of the bowlers
India second innings - Bats out another 138 balls for 63 runs and helps India save the test

India second test

India first innings - Bats out 84 balls for 36 runs and hangs around while Rahane smashes England
India first innings (bowling) - bowls 31 (7 more than Ishant the next best) overs taking 6 wickets being the pick of the bowlers
India second innings - bats 71 balls for 52 runs along with Jadeja to counter attack against England
India second innings - bowls another 16 overs keeping it tight with an eco rate of 1.31 as Ishant bounces India out.

So that's 442 balls faced and bowled 78 overs in just 2 tests.

He's basically done 3 tests worth of work in 2 tests. And it's hardly like he didn't perform in the next 3 either.
 
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G.I.Joe

G.I.Joe

International Coach
I'd go in with 5 bowlers because one of our bowlers invariably loses the plot every Test. We need the cover to lessen the incidence of the constant horror shows we're subject to by spending two days an innings in the field almost every Test. Ideally one of those 5 bowlers must be an all-rounder, but until we unearth a real one, we'll have to make do with weakening the batting line-up.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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If we had a decent part timer like Root, 4 bowlers would be

Assuming Bhuvi and Ashwin play, I think we definitely gain from playing an extra bowler (bonus batting points if it's Mishra) than we would from an extra batsmen. Remember, the goal is winning Test matches.
 
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