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The Kane Williamson Average Watch thread

Will Kane average 50 in both ODIs and Tests at some point before Feb 2017?

  • Total voters
    49
Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Flem274* said:
Again you're not understanding my post. I said need, not would.

Kallis is a better allrounder than Hadlee. Test standard bowler and ATG bat plus good set of hands > ATG bowler, competent lower order bat averaging less than 30.
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CW as a whole regards Hadlee as greater than Kallis in all of our all rounder threads according to the voting. So if you believe that Kallis is better than Hadlee, and you are not alone as others also agree with you, then I can see why you can imagine a scenario of how Kane can overtake Paddles according to your logic. Please know that most people would disagree with you. And that secondly although you have written "need not would". The possibility of him becoming an allrounder is so remote that to suggest it is illegitimate even if prefaced by would "need to".

All good - I am only debating passionately as I grew up watching Hadlee and think of him as a demi god.
 
Mike5181

Mike5181

International Captain
Hadlee is arguably a top 5 ATG bowler, but as a cricketer, I'd pick Kallis. Sorry, but he's a top-tier batsman (ignoring Bradman), a test standard bowler, and an ATG slip catcher. In my mind only three other players have brought as much value to a side as him. Bradman, Garfield Sobers, and Imran Khan.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Kallis is undoubtedly a great player, but he inflated his stats above his station by marmalising the minnows, and his bowling was the beneficiary of operating in the slipstream of a succession of ATGs. Hadlee has a legitimate claim to being the World's greatest fast bowler since the War despite only having the support of a rag-tag collection of semi-professionals throughout his career. He was more of a match winner. To say that Kallis is definitely better is just plain silly.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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I'll say it again, as a pure batsman, Kane can only realistically hope to get close to Hadlee if he has a truly epic career not just in terms of quality but length. If he goes 20+ years and keeps going like he has recently, I'd put him pretty close to Hadlee.

All this talk is kinda premature though. Atleast let him establish himself as the top batsman in the world, much less an ATG.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Hadlee was is far higher up in the ladder of great fast bowlers than Kallis as a batsman. Neither of them is 'definitely' better than the other overall though.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Or, y'know, maybe we'll recognise that comparing a batsman to a bowler is utterly fruitless and we'll say KW was the best bat and Hadlee the best quick.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Will this be another golden age for batting? Kane, Kohli, The People's Chump, Root, Bravo Jr.? Must be an exciting time if enough tests are played...
 
Mike5181

Mike5181

International Captain
Bahnz said:
Kallis is undoubtedly a great player, but he inflated his stats above his station by marmalising the minnows, and his bowling was the beneficiary of operating in the slipstream of a succession of ATGs. Hadlee has a legitimate claim to being the World's greatest fast bowler since the War despite only having the support of a rag-tag collection of semi-professionals throughout his career. He was more of a match winner. To say that Kallis is definitely better is just plain silly.
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Very few great players are exempt from the minnow bashing line, because you know, great players play well against **** players. Hadlee took apart Sri Lanka several times in the 80s. Sobers destroyed India and Pakistan to a ridiculous extent in his day too. That being said, Kallis was hardly a top-tier minnow basher anyway. He scored 40 odd centuries against proper sides.

I'm not buying the argument that Kallis' bowling figures flatter him because he had the benefit of being in great attacks. He had the workload of an ATG batsman at the same time he was bowling. In discussions involving wicketkeepers and their batting performances, a lot of consideration is given to the fatigue they incurred during games with the gloves on, let's not forget what Kallis had to do either. He would have walked into a lot of test teams as a bowler alone during his career. Hadlee's batting, although useful, really wasn't at that level.

For some reason achievements in the field are often downplayed or forgotten about altogether. Kallis was one of the most prolific slip catches the game has ever seen. 200 catches compared to Hadlee's 39. 'Catches win matches' is cliché, but there's an element of truth to it.

Maybe saying he's 'definitely' better was a bit of a stretch, I concede that. Kallis is still massively underrated though. Give it 20 years, I guess.
 
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