***Official*** England in West Indies 2015

[Prince EWS]

I can definitely understand why people dislike Benn but I definitely still think he's a much better bowler than Permaul unless the latter has seriously improved over the last few months.

 

[Athlai]

West Indies cricket, a legendary place with reports of mythical spinners.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I reckon 1-1 with one test of each side collapsing to pace and a high scoring draw with Root/Bell etc going big then Chanderpaul batting for 5 sessions

 

[Beamer]

I agree that potential is just that until it actually performs, but I think people are going a bit over the top in their rating of this particular Windies team. We have endured some absolute shockers over the last few years. Our current bowling attack is actually pretty good and far better than most we've put on the park since Amby and Walsh retired. Lets looks at it player by player:

Smith - Admittedly rubbish. Dominant FC batsman, rubbish at test level.. Hes no worse than Ganga/Williams/Griffith/Garrick etc etc
Braithwaite - Shining light, bucket loads of runs recently, hundreds against Boult/Southee and the best attack in the World.
Bravo - Averages 44 in test cricket. Extremely talented. Excellent batsman. Coming back from time away admittedly.
Samuels - Amazing talent, loves batting against England. Bit of an idiot though and will he bat properly?
Chanderpaul - Best batsman on either side by a country mile, 40 years old or not. Close to 12,000 runs.
Blackwood/Hope - Unproven youngsters. Lots of talent. Will be fun to see how either of them does.
Ramdin - Not the best keeper/batsman going around but batted well over the last few years and no worst than Ridley was IMHO.
Holder - Unproven at test level but experienced internationally and had a good start to his career
Taylor - Bowled this opposition out for 51. Very talented pacer, far superior to Stuart/King/McLean/Rose etc. Fitness will be key.
Roach - Statistcially the best bowler on either side. World class performer and our best since Walsh. Fitness will be key.
Bishoo - ICC emerging player of year in 2012. Talented leggie, went off the boil, back and better then ever. Far superior to Banks/Benn etc

Now this is clearly not a particularly special side and it is early in it's development. They haven't worked out how to win consistently yet. But it's nowhere near the worst side we have put on the park over the last 15 years. I'm actually pretty optimistic about our side as long as we continue to field decent bowling attacks and the likes of Kraigg, Hope and Blackwood develop. But people seem to be forgetting some of the cricketers we have put out on the field over recent years and just how bad they were.

This side really isn't that bad, especially when you consider just how average this England team is by their standards. I just think Peter Moores is being set up for a fall with this series being made out to be much easier than it actually is.

 

[Beamer]

Oh and as for Permaul, he's just a solid left arm spinner really, lands it in the same spot over and over with slight variations in flight and turns it a bit. He's got a superb arm ball.

Certainly not as good as Bishoo or Narine (mark 1) but he's in better bowling form than Benn, is a much better batsman and fielder and is just generally less of an idiot. I'd have him in my squad ahead of Benn any day of the week.

 

[OverratedSanity]

On recent form, Williamson and Mccullum are as good as or better than Chanders imo.

I really like Blackwood... been very impressive the couple of times I've seen him. How's his FC record like?

 

[Beamer]

On recent form, Williamson and Mccullum are as good as or better than Chanders imo.

I really like Blackwood... been very impressive the couple of times I've seen him. How's his FC record like?

Who on the current England side is as good or better than Shiv though? Bell? I don't think so. England are a far better batting unit than us though, I'll give them that.

I think England will win a tight series. It would seem that anything other than 3 wins in less than 4 days would be an absolute disaster for them though so I hope they are prepared for such devastating failure.....

Blackwood was averaging 40 in FC cricket but had a dissapointing tournament this year tbh, carrying the entire Jamaican lineup on his own back was proving a bit much for him. Still, I love wathching him bat and would dearly love to watch him perform in this series.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lol with the numerous NZ vs WI matches over the last year I forgot it was ENg in this series.

Apologies. You're right about Chanders being the best by far in that case, though Root has been in great touch.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Braithwaite - Shining light, bucket loads of runs recently, hundreds against Boult/Southee and the best attack in the World.
.

you don't need to mention the same bowling attack twice

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Lol with the numerous NZ vs WI matches over the last year I forgot it was ENg in this series.
.

I was wondering what you were talking about! As a neutral I'm quite interested in this series

 

[NZTailender]

Yeah am rooting for the WIndies here. I agree with what Goughy said re: proven results, but I do think the pace attack is decent and potentially really good. Roach is already one of the best Test seamers in the world. Hoping Bravo and Braithwaite fill their boots.

 

[Pratters]

As for the quality of our side, I think Goughy is being a bit harsh. I wouldn't underestimate our bowling attack which caused problems to a decent NZ side. Taylor and Roach are a pretty damn good opening combination and with Holder as a 3rd seamer, backed up by a decent leg spinner and possibly a solid(ish) left arm spinner if needed, it can and will cause England problems. Our batting is the big problem but at least we've got Darren Bravo back to add some class to proceedings.

Taylor will be a handful if he bowls like he did in the world cup for the test matches. Roach is a shadow of his former self though. Holder is too non threatening most of the time. A mediocre pace attack on paper.

 

[Pratters]

I can definitely understand why people dislike Benn but I definitely still think he's a much better bowler than Permaul unless the latter has seriously improved over the last few months.

Benn is a fine stock bowling option. A bit like Giles for England. When you can't have many strike bowlers, a stock bowler does just fine. If the third and fifth bowlers in the team aren't much too (this was accentuated with Sammy was playing), there are just too many stock bowlers out there. I remember watching a test at Eden and in the middle of the day, for almost the entire session, they just had two stock bowlers bowling. It was very boring to watch.

 

[91Jmay]

Giles could hold a bat though and wasn't a liability in the field. Benn is a 1 dimensional cricketer with an ordinary dimension.

 

[Pratters]

That's not the first reason you select or deselect a bowler in tests.

Anyways, was looking at the stats - Giles and Benn have very similar stats, so that's a good example, I guess.

After 25 tests, Benn averages 38 and has a strike rate of 82. A bit more than 3 wickets per test.
After 54 tests, Giles averaged 40.6 and had a strike rate of 85. A bit less than 3 wickets per test.

Benn can some times become a threatening bowler as well - has 6 5 wicket hauls compared to Giles' 5 in less than half the tests. That's really handy to fill the overs when you can't produce 3-4 amazing bowlers. Jerome Taylor needs adequate rest between his spells, as does Roach for instance.

 

[Dan]

And your sole spinner being a stock bowler, in the West Indies, strikes me as a really poor option. Made sense with Giles because the conditions weren't suited to spinners, so being a stock spinner let you play three more aggressive quicks. For WI conditions, the balance would be two seamers, a stock third seamer, and an aggressive spinner (if not two spinners).

Honestly, away from home I reckon picking Deonarine at 8 as a stock spinner would be a passable option. But at home, the WI need a spinner who can take wickets IMO.

 

[Pratters]

And your sole spinner being a stock bowler, in the West Indies, strikes me as a really poor option. Made sense with Giles because the conditions weren't suited to spinners, so being a stock spinner let you play three more aggressive quicks. For WI conditions, the balance would be two seamers, a stock third seamer, and an aggressive spinner (if not two spinners).

Honestly, away from home I reckon picking Deonarine at 8 as a stock spinner would be a passable option. But at home, the WI need a spinner who can take wickets IMO.

That's a good point.

 

[hendrix]

Stock spinners are gun in the Windies.

Someone like Jadeja would reek havoc at some of those grounds, IMO. And you all know how low I rate Jadeja.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Stock spinners are gun in the Windies.

Someone like Jadeja would reek havoc at some of those grounds, IMO. And you all know how low I rate Jadeja.

Yeah but Benn isn't wreaking havoc, which is the point.

 

[Pratters]

Stock spinners are gun in the Windies.

Someone like Jadeja would reek havoc at some of those grounds, IMO. And you all know how low I rate Jadeja.

That's a good point.