*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[Jono]

Nah not buying that. Look at where they had RVD at WM 18 and 19 ffs. They completely missed the boat at one of the most over wrestlers duing that 02-04 period. They didn't want to make him big. That's fine (well its not) but don't then blame RVD when you later miss the boat. Its like blaming Goldberg for his 03 title run when they missed the boat on that too. Trips having a crack at RVD is just him being a tool. I'm not arguing RVD was bigger than Trips, I'm saying what he said about Edge, Jericho and RVD wasn't him being heel, it was him being the politicking douchebag that many smarks hate him for. And also just shows his lack of self awareness.

 

[Jono]

Maybe if he didn't sound like a dumb mark in the first three minutes I would have ****

You're the only person ever who will say that Solomonster sounds like a mark. Baaaaaaaaaffling.

 

[OverratedSanity]

But look what happened when they did give him the ball.

HHH failedtoo you know. Face run was pathetic and they had to give the title to a 50 year old Hogan

 

[sledger]

Love RVD. Watched his debut WWE match (well, sort of debut) against Jeff Hardy at Invasion the other day. At the time I hadn't really seen much of him, and was enthralled by how innovative his ring work was - had never really seen anything like it in the WWE before. WAG.

On whether he ought to have been a really top guy...well....just can't see it myself. Much as he was/is a total gun I don't think he quite had what would have been needed to be "the man" over a long period of time. I think his lack of intensity and drive is probably had something to do with that - bloke seemed to be as laid back and carefree as they come. Shame his WWE title run came to an end because of him taking drugs etc..., but oh well, I guess that just kind of takes me back to my previous point about him having his head in the clouds.

 

[GIMH]

Nah not buying that. Look at where they had RVD at WM 18 and 19 ffs. They completely missed the boat at one of the most over wrestlers duing that 02-04 period. They didn't want to make him big. That's fine (well its not) but don't then blame RVD when you later miss the boat. Its like blaming Goldberg for his 03 title run when they missed the boat on that too. Trips having a crack at RVD is just him being a tool. I'm not arguing RVD was bigger than Trips, I'm saying what he said about Edge, Jericho and RVD wasn't him being heel, it was him being the politicking douchebag that many smarks hate him for. And also just shows his lack of self awareness.

Who knows mate, maybe RVD would have kept himself clean but I think they were **** scared of him getting busted as champ. Which eventually did happen. Maybe politics would have kept him down anyway though. I'm a big fan of the bloke and agree he was underused but don't think he could ever be trusted to be a top guy.

As for the other points, I agree it's a dick thing to say in a shoot interview (which I'm assuming it was hence your not being heel comment). I've no problem with that at all. Really where I defend HHH is when people call him out for things he says in character.

Wrestlers can't be buried in one match and certainly not one promo. Heels are meant to belittle their opponent, but saying these things outside of character is poor form, I agree. ****.

You're the only person ever who will say that Solomonster sounds like a mark. Baaaaaaaaaffling.

Just talking about what I said earlier about the Hogan/Savage thing. It was stupid and I stand by it.

HHH failedtoo you know. Face run was pathetic and they had to give the title to a 50 year old Hogan

Yeah I know, he failed on screen, but that's not the issue with RVD's title run

BTW how good was RVD V Cena for the title

 

[sledger]

Nah not buying that. Look at where they had RVD at WM 18 and 19 ffs. They completely missed the boat at one of the most over wrestlers duing that 02-04 period. They didn't want to make him big. That's fine (well its not) but don't then blame RVD when you later miss the boat. Its like blaming Goldberg for his 03 title run when they missed the boat on that too. Trips having a crack at RVD is just him being a tool. I'm not arguing RVD was bigger than Trips, I'm saying what he said about Edge, Jericho and RVD wasn't him being heel, it was him being the politicking douchebag that many smarks hate him for. And also just shows his lack of self awareness.

What do you mean by this, exactly? At this point he had only been with the company for about 8 months and walked out of WM with what was at the time a fairly prestigious title. Not exactly a raw deal.

In fairness to RVD, he spent much of his time in the WWE being involved as a peripheral part of angles that involved loads of people (e.g. he would be chucked into Elimination Chamber matches etc...), or in tag team feuds or something. He never rarely got the chance to work a really good singles feud. Once the E finally gave him the chance and gave him a mega push (beating Cena for the WWE title ffs) he just totally blew it for himself when he got caught taking drugs with Sabu a few days later and ended up being booted,

 

[Jono]

Its incredible really when you think about how much money the WWE left on the table in 2001-03. We've spoken about the botched Invasion, but then the way they under-used RVD who was selling merchandise like no other, they finally had Goldberg being a kick-ass monster face and they lost that moment at SummerSlam 2003. **** what a lost opportunity.

 

[OverratedSanity]

HHH beating Punk when he was off-the-charts hot in 2011 annoyed me just as much as HHH's 2002-05 stuff . Thankfully Punk was so over anyway, even HHH wasn't able to ruin him.

 

[Jono]

What do you mean by this, exactly? At this point he had only been with the company for about 8 months and walked out of WM with what was at the time a fairly prestigious title. Not exactly a raw deal.

In fairness to RVD, he spent much of his time in the WWE being involved as a peripheral part of angles that involved loads of people (e.g. he would be chucked into Elimination Chamber matches etc...), or in tag team feuds or something. He never rarely got the chance to work a really good singles feud. Once the E finally gave him the chance and gave him a mega push (beating Cena for the WWE title ffs) he just totally blew it for himself when he got caught taking drugs with Sabu a few days later and ended up being booted,

If you think RVD vs. Regal is the right thing to do heading into Mania when they fluked RVD being ridiculously over then you're crazy. I'm not saying have him main event Mania 18, I'm saying strike while its hot. Allow RVD to make you money.

 

[sledger]

HHH beating Punk when he was off-the-charts hot in 2011 annoyed me just as much as HHH's 2002-05 stuff . Thankfully Punk was so over anyway, even HHH wasn't able to ruin him.

Yes this was an absolutely nonsense booking.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Its incredible really when you think about how much money the WWE left on the table in 2001-03. We've spoken about the botched Invasion, but then the way they under-used RVD who was selling merchandise like no other, they finally had Goldberg being a kick-ass monster face and they lost that moment at SummerSlam 2003. **** what a lost opportunity.

Was Summerslam the Elimination chamber match? Crowd was ridiculously into Goldberg, and he'd been booked perfectly. Then? Sledgehammer... ****ing boo

 

[Jono]

As for the other points, I agree it's a dick thing to say in a shoot interview (which I'm assuming it was hence your not being heel comment). I've no problem with that at all. Really where I defend HHH is when people call him out for things he says in character.

Do you not know what comment from Trips I am referring to or something? If so it makes sense why you are going at RVD and the title run, which wasn't the point. The point is Trips said they were never the face of the company, completely not understanding that neither was Triple H despite the fact that he had the backing of the McMahons.

It pissed off Jericho and Edge enough that they felt it necessary to respond on Twitter / podcasts / interviews.

 

[Jono]

"When you look back on WWE's history, how many guys really were 'the guy'? There was Bruno Sammartino, then Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock and now John Cena. Then again, does Triple H like guys with long hair that are better looking and more athletic than him? Probably not. And I think the three of us fall into that category,"

Edge wag

 

[GIMH]

HHH beating Punk when he was off-the-charts hot in 2011 annoyed me just as much as HHH's 2002-05 stuff . Thankfully Punk was so over anyway, even HHH wasn't able to ruin him.

At least it wasn't Nash he was laying down for as I believe was the original plan? Or am I thinking of something else

 

[sledger]

If you think RVD vs. Regal is the right thing to do heading into Mania when they fluked RVD being ridiculously over then you're crazy. I'm not saying have him main event Mania 18, I'm saying strike while its hot. Allow RVD to make you money.

Fair enough. Hypothetically then, what would you have done with him?

 

[sledger]

At least it wasn't Nash he was laying down for as I believe was the original plan? Or am I thinking of something else

That was the original plan for a match, until Nash failed his medical. I didn't realise they actually planned for Nash to go over though. Holy crap that would have been bad. Not sure why they thought we'd have wanted to see Punk vs Nash anyway tbh, seemed like such an odd feud to go for.

 

[GIMH]

Do you not know what comment from Trips I am referring to or something? If so it makes sense why you are going at RVD and the title run, which wasn't the point. The point is Trips said they were never the face of the company, completely not understanding that neither was Triple H despite the fact that he had the backing of the McMahons.

It pissed off Jericho and Edge enough that they felt it necessary to respond on Twitter / podcasts / interviews.

No tbh I thought you were talking anecdotally from recent years. Link me up bitch

 

[sledger]

Was Summerslam the Elimination chamber match? Crowd was ridiculously into Goldberg, and he'd been booked perfectly. Then? Sledgehammer... ****ing boo

Yeah, that was really bad actually. Not least because it was obvious that HHH was barely fit to wrestle.

Just remembered the HHH feud with Steiner that happened shortly after, that was hilarious for dire reasons as well.

 

[OverratedSanity]

At least it wasn't Nash he was laying down for as I believe was the original plan? Or am I thinking of something else

Was booked for a match against Nash, but don't know Punk was supposed to lose that one... atrocious if true.

Regardless it was all just stupid stuff. Punk was hot as lava and he has to work a program with Nash and lose to HHH? Clear case of trying to intentionally stop someone's momentum I've seen for a long time. Atleast it led to some amazing promos from Punk repeatedly demolishing Nash on the mic, though.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, that was really bad actually. Not least because it was obvious that HHH was barely fit to wrestle.

Just remembered the HHH feud with Steiner that happened shortly after, that was hilarious for dire reasons as well.

Yeah exactly. HHH was injured anyway. Drop the title and come back for a damn rematch in a few months ffs.

Steiner was laughable. The match at the Rumble The only one from 02-05 who deserved the burial.