Are tons really that impressive in this era?

[Dan]

Well tbh your Samuels argument doesn't really hold weight when he scored a ton against the same attack a year earlier and it was confirmed that he had a major wrist injury during that series which he had operated on straight after the NZ tour.

Don't take the example that literally ffs.

Fine, next time a WI bat has an inexplicably poor tour of somewhere I'll make sure to write any future runs off until I see a drastic technical change made in their game, whether said drastic technical change is required or not.

How can Australia's attack be as "great" as some suggest when they can barely get a man who's technical flaws were there for all to see against England? bad form is one thing but Jimmy had him on toast time and time again.

Kohli has batted exceptionally well against a very good attack, on pitches that have been quite friendly to batsmen. It really isn't that hard to grasp the concept of a batsman, y'know, batting well. Centuries have been made against Steyn & co, and Ben Stokes made one against MJ & co. last summer. The West Indies pace foursomes of the 80s had centuries scored against them.

Suggesting that an attack sucks because Kohli made runs against them and Kohli sucks because England completely misses all the evidence that points to Kohli being a more than capable Test batsman overseas (i.e. his previous ton in Aus, runs in SA). Yes, he had an epically bad tour of England, but that doesn't immediately make him ****. It makes him human; he has things to work on. And it completely ignores all evidence that the Australian attack doesn't suck (i.e. they're actually capable of taking 20 wickets a game in most conditions, unlike half of the bowling attacks presently in Test cricket).

Kohli's weaknesses are exploited the most in English conditions, which are not Australian conditions. The Australian bowlers can't suddenly make it overcast and miserable as **** just because Kohli struggles with the way pitches play and conditions are in England. If Jimmy were to bowl to Kohli out here, he wouldn't operate the same way he did in England, and I doubt he'd make Kohli his bunny because he doesn't have the conditions helping him exploit a weakness.

I'm confounded that you can't see the incredibly obvious point that sucking in England does not necessarily translate to sucking in Australia, even making the huge assumption that Kohli did no technical work in the mean-time. And from there that a bowling attack ought to be judged on their ability to dismiss one particular player in one particular series.

 

[Noah]

The aussies have barely stuck to bowling a nagging line on off-stump though!!..they've been all over the place to Kohli ad that's why he's filling his boots imo. That and the fact that the tracks are basically tailor made for the indian batsmen.

I think the Australian attack has been bowling reasonably well though. Harris and Hazlewood have certainly been attacking that channel outside the off-stump and Johnson was still pushing balls across the batsmen. As they always do, I feel like the Australian attack has gone over-the-top with the short pitched bowling but they have still been testing Kohli in the corridor of uncertainty. That's why Kohli has got quite a bit of praise for his tonnes in Adelaide, Melbourne and today; people recognise that the innings have been genuinely good against an Australian attack that has been bowling to plans and executing reasonably well.

If anything, I'd say that Kohli and others have been "filling their boots" through atrocious fielding rather than poor bowling.

If you wanted to argue that Smith and Warner have been filling their boots against a crap attack then you'd have a point. But you're choosing the worst possible case to argue by going after Kohli; his centuries (and those of Vijay and Rahane) have been well deserved and of a quality that would have earned a century in other eras imo.

 

[cnerd123]

Noah and Dan putting away some trash bowling here form WW.

There have been too many great posts recently. It's not as impressive as it once was tbh.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think these days when people get on top of the opposition they don't tend to release it as the series goes on. Hence in long series you quite often get a batsman who is scoring runs pretty much every innings. Equally though you get those who are struggling and can't get out of it, and I reckon the bowler has a better chance of turning it around than the batsman. At least, that's what we saw with England and India a few months back and the Ashes before that.

 

[cnerd123]

What I found interesting was that the 2011-2013 period was actually quite a bit better for bowlers than the 10 years before that (well at least 2011 and 2013, 2012 had a **** load of ATG innings), but the last 12 months have been more of a return to the mid 2000's. This is despite a lot more quality bowlers appearing now than what they were.

Is it just form? Or are wickets a lot flatter now than what they were?

I have a theory that most sides are now filled with a handful of excellent players, and the rest of the fillers are dross.

So we have fantastic batting talent scoring runs and fantastic bowling talent taking wickets, with the dross suffering.

India have all great bats and no bowling, whereas NZ seem the most rounded. The rest seem more imbalanced.

 

[Dan]

Yeah look critique the number of centuries being scored all you like, but before writing one off, actually bother to watch it.

Kohli today was not a soft century against meek bowling where the attack had obviously given up (that Eoin Morgan ton). It was not a pressure-free ton in a dead rubber (Watson at The Oval). It was not lucky slogging (Abul Hasan), nor was it against a minnow, or downhill skiing from 400/3.

Kohli was under stacks of scoreboard pressure, momentum was against him, he was trying to guide a rookie through his first innings of substance while still learning how to be captain, had a pretty impressive bowling attack coming at him hard, in the middle of 28,000 people chanting "Kohli's a wanker". He met every challenge head-on and dominated them. He was a class above the rest of the Indian batsmen and thoroughly deserved the runs he made.

 

[harsh.ag]

Gotta watch more, WW. The bowling today was on the money. The pitch is batting friendly, yes, but the bowling wasn't.

Saying that the bowling was bad because somebody scored runs cannot make sense to you.

As far as the larger issue of the thread, I think it goes to

a) Better bats
b) Flatter pitches
c) Shorter boundaries (to a certain extent)

The bowling is far from rubbish nowadays. India away from the subcontinent and Windies away from the Caribbean (and without Roach) are the only two weak bowling sides. The others are awesome.

 

[Dan]

SL away.

 

[Antihippy]

Is SL at home even that impressive anymore? Barring herath of course.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The bowling from Australia today was top notch. There were no easy runs to be made even though the pitch was most definitely a great one for batsmen.

 

[sledger]

lol can't wait for some WI batsmen to score tuns so that I can write them off on the basis that I'm a ****.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Don't take the example that literally ffs.

Fine, next time a WI bat has an inexplicably poor tour of somewhere I'll make sure to write any future runs off until I see a drastic technical change made in their game, whether said drastic technical change is required or not.



Kohli has batted exceptionally well against a very good attack, on pitches that have been quite friendly to batsmen. It really isn't that hard to grasp the concept of a batsman, y'know, batting well. Centuries have been made against Steyn & co, and Ben Stokes made one against MJ & co. last summer. The West Indies pace foursomes of the 80s had centuries scored against them.

Suggesting that an attack sucks because Kohli made runs against them and Kohli sucks because England completely misses all the evidence that points to Kohli being a more than capable Test batsman overseas (i.e. his previous ton in Aus, runs in SA). Yes, he had an epically bad tour of England, but that doesn't immediately make him ****. It makes him human; he has things to work on. And it completely ignores all evidence that the Australian attack doesn't suck (i.e. they're actually capable of taking 20 wickets a game in most conditions, unlike half of the bowling attacks presently in Test cricket).

Kohli's weaknesses are exploited the most in English conditions, which are not Australian conditions. The Australian bowlers can't suddenly make it overcast and miserable as **** just because Kohli struggles with the way pitches play and conditions are in England. If Jimmy were to bowl to Kohli out here, he wouldn't operate the same way he did in England, and I doubt he'd make Kohli his bunny because he doesn't have the conditions helping him exploit a weakness.

I'm confounded that you can't see the incredibly obvious point that sucking in England does not necessarily translate to sucking in Australia, even making the huge assumption that Kohli did no technical work in the mean-time. And from there that a bowling attack ought to be judged on their ability to dismiss one particular player in one particular series.

Dan i wonder what you see when you read my posts...as some of your assumptions simply don't ring true

1. i'm not saying Kohli is rubbish

2. Conditions were very english granted but that didn't stop Rahane and Vijay getting runs in england

3. All i'm saying is Kohli's TECHNICAL FLAW was extremely apparent and the Aussies haven't been able to expose that...conditions or no conditions they've been all over the place when bowling to him

4. And also Kohli isn't the only one scoring tons in this series...The aussie attack is very good but not "great" when you have a guy with such a flaw constantly getting the better of them...

But hey that's just my opinion...i expect "great" attacks to start figuring things out by the third test at least...sorry

 

[The Sean]

Digging Noah. Huge debut.

Yeah, this. Impressive stuff.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I think the Australian attack has been bowling reasonably well though. Harris and Hazlewood have certainly been attacking that channel outside the off-stump and Johnson was still pushing balls across the batsmen. As they always do, I feel like the Australian attack has gone over-the-top with the short pitched bowling but they have still been testing Kohli in the corridor of uncertainty. That's why Kohli has got quite a bit of praise for his tonnes in Adelaide, Melbourne and today; people recognise that the innings have been genuinely good against an Australian attack that has been bowling to plans and executing reasonably well.

If anything, I'd say that Kohli and others have been "filling their boots" through atrocious fielding rather than poor bowling.

If you wanted to argue that Smith and Warner have been filling their boots against a crap attack then you'd have a point. But you're choosing the worst possible case to argue by going after Kohli; his centuries (and those of Vijay and Rahane) have been well deserved and of a quality that would have earned a century in other eras imo.

The only decent ton out of the four was on the 5th day pitch...but still that was poor bowling by the aussies!!!..The tracks have been tailor made for Indian batsmen and the bowling has been erratic to him on most occasions imo. You'd never see the SA attack getting a beating from one man like that...especially when he's dodgy around the off-stump.

I have no problem with you rooting for the guy though (he's a class player) and clearly you have a cheerleader on this thread so good luck.

 

[WindieWeathers]

lol can't wait for some WI batsmen to score tuns so that I can write them off on the basis that I'm a ****.

No-one is "writing off" anyone..start comprehending posts better please!! .

 

[OverratedSanity]

Dan i wonder what you see when you read my posts...as some of your assumptions simply don't ring true

1. i'm not saying Kohli is rubbish

2. Conditions were very english granted but that didn't stop Rahane and Vijay getting runs in england

3. All i'm saying is Kohli's TECHNICAL FLAW was extremely apparent and the Aussies haven't been able to expose that...conditions or no conditions they've been all over the place when bowling to him

4. And also Kohli isn't the only one scoring tons in this series...The aussie attack is very good but not "great" when you have a guy with such a flaw constantly getting the better of them...

But hey that's just my opinion...i expect "great" attacks to start figuring things out by the third test at least...sorry

Australia and England are different. Kohli's technical flaw wasn't exposed partly due to his own adjustments, and the lack of pronounced English - like swing.

Kohli visited South Africa too before he went to England. He handled Steyn, who has one of the best outswingers of all time superbly, partly because conditions in that series weren't as conducive to swing as they usually are.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The only decent ton out of the four was on the 5th day pitch...but still that was poor bowling by the aussies!!!..

What a joke.

The tracks have been tailor made for Indian batsmen and the bowling has been erratic to him on most occasions imo. You'd never see the SA attack getting a beating from one man like that...especially when he's dodgy around the off-stump.

Ffs, he spanked around Steyn and Philander in south Africa. And anyone who says Australia bowled crap or gave Kohli freebies simply hasn't watched the matches.

His issue is swing. When it doesn't swing much, he dominates.

 

[WindieWeathers]

What a joke.



Ffs, he spanked around Steyn and Philander in south Africa. And anyone who says Australia bowled crap or gave Kohli freebies simply hasn't watched the matches.

His issue is swing. When it doesn't swing much, he dominates.

And how many tons did he get in SA? wasn't it pretty much the same as Kraigg Brathwaite?

 

[OverratedSanity]

And how many tons did he get in SA? wasn't it prettymuch the same as Kraigg Brathwaite?

Your point?

 

[WindieWeathers]

Your point?

Real world class attacks don't allow a batsman to score 4 tons against them in a single series .