The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[cnerd123]

Dont think he'd be suited to a late innings finisher role. It's a flexible lineup. If there are 10-15 overs left then MSD, Klusener and Dev get pushed up, probably Wasim too. But if we are 4 down in 22 overs or something, I'd rather Imran walk out to stabilise things.

 

[micz]

ODI XI

Adam Gilchrist
Sachin Tendulkar
Ricky Ponting
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Michael Bevan
Kapil Dev
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee

Jonty Rhodes (12th man)

 

[Gob]

sobers?

 

[Red]

ODI XI

Adam Gilchrist
Sachin Tendulkar
Ricky Ponting
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Michael Bevan
Kapil Dev
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee

Jonty Rhodes (12th man)

Mark Waugh
Hashim Amla
Dean Jones
Javed Miandad
AB DeVilliers
MS Dhoni
Lance Klusener
Shakib Al Hasan
Allan Donald
Waqar Younis
Glenn McGrath

 

[Flem274*]

Sangakkara gets a bad wrap. I don't care how many tons he has on Asian pitches compared to western pitches, he's got twin tons against Bond (one on a green top where he was the only batsman in the game to pass 50 and remained unbeaten) and scored 192 in Hobart before being sawn off.

He can play amazing innings anywhere. Bit of a hero itbt.

 

[watson]

It's a shame that Sangakkara played only 5 miserable Tests in Australia, most of them in backwaters, and none at the SCG.

But despite relatively few innings his average of 60.33 still suggests that he enjoyed Australian conditions.

 

[harsh.ag]

Mad Stats in the 4th Innings XI

Just plugged in best stats by position
- 500 runs minimum for the top 5 batsmen
- 25 wickets minimum for the bowlers

Bruce Mitchell (535 runs @ 89.16)
Jeffrey Stollmeyer (518 runs @ 86.33)

Don Bradman (572 runs @ 95.33)
Younis Khan (712 runs @ 71.20) - Chappell has > average but both played 17 innings; Younis has more runs and 100s
Misbah ul-Haq (511 runs @ 63.87)

AB de Villiers + (315 runs in the 4th innings overall @ 63.00) or Alan Knott (409 runs at number 7 in the 4th innings @ 58.42)

Richard Hadlee (32 wickets @ 15.62 as opening bowler)
Bishan Bedi (26 wickets @ 13.42 as first change bowler)
Curtly Ambrose (52 wickets as opening bowler @ 15.42)
Muttiah Muralitharan (36 wickets as second change bowler @ 24.22)

Now, I can't figure out how to pick a player for the vacant number 6 or 7 slot (depends on who you choose as the keeper). Ideas? Remember it must be a player who bats at number 6 or 7, since this is a statistical enterprise. No player at number 6 or 7 has scored 500 runs, so that criteria will have to be nullified.

 

[Teja.]

Sangakkara gets a bad wrap. I don't care how many tons he has on Asian pitches compared to western pitches, he's got twin tons against Bond (one on a green top where he was the only batsman in the game to pass 50 and remained unbeaten) and scored 192 in Hobart before being sawn off.

He can play amazing innings anywhere. Bit of a hero itbt.

Yeah, that's the thing. He still is very, very good outside the sub-continent. He averages 45.7 and people who average that much and are that talented are capable of playing amazing innings. He isn't quite ATG quality in that situation though and has failings in England and SA. Someone he's recently been compared to, Dravid averages 9 runs more outside.

Would you rather have someone like Dravid who will be standard excellent both inside and outside the SC or someone like Sanga who will be a god for you inside the SC but only very good outside? It's debatable but considering India's comparative batting strength in the period in the SC and away, I'd take Dravid every time for scoring runs when the others will score fewer.

It's a judgment call who you'd rather have depending on the adapting ability of your teammates and the relative importance you attach to defending the home fortress + being able to pummel in conditions where your bowling can excel v. doing well away in stranger conditions.

 

[harsh.ag]

Sangakkara has had less chances than Dravid to play outside the SC, and he came good in England last time around. So he might have become better given more gos, and probably would have.

But Dravid started succeeding in England right from the get go, so there is that in his favour.

 

[Pratters]

Sangakarra was lovely to watch in Australia. His shots looked the most beautiful in Australia where you have the bounce. However, Dravid>Sangakarra for me. The one who I would bank on more to make the runs for me with a gun to my head.

 

[Jono]

Yeah, that's the thing. He still is very, very good outside the sub-continent. He averages 45.7 and people who average that much and are that talented are capable of playing amazing innings. He isn't quite ATG quality in that situation though and has failings in England and SA. Someone he's recently been compared to, Dravid averages 9 runs more outside.

Would you rather have someone like Dravid who will be standard excellent both inside and outside the SC or someone like Sanga who will be a god for you inside the SC but only very good outside? It's debatable but considering India's comparative batting strength in the period in the SC and away, I'd take Dravid every time for scoring runs when the others will score fewer.

It's a judgment call who you'd rather have depending on the adapting ability of your teammates and the relative importance you attach to defending the home fortress + being able to pummel in conditions where your bowling can excel v. doing well away in stranger conditions.

I do believe Dravid is better than Sanga at this stage, but this ignores the fact that Dravid had better openers than Sanga, and had better middle order batsmen around him too.

 

[Teja.]

I do believe Dravid is better than Sanga at this stage, but this ignores the fact that Dravid had better openers than Sanga, and had better middle order batsmen around him too.

Yep it was a simplistic breakdown in order to make a specific point about the Sanga-SC thing and wasn't intended to holistically give my opinion on every aspect of contrast tbh.

but yeah Sehwag was sub-standard outside the SC but everyone has to acknowledge that batting with Sachin and Laxman after has it's benefits.Averaging 55 outside the SC is seriously mammoth though, WAG.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I do believe Dravid is better than Sanga at this stage, but this ignores the fact that Dravid had better openers than Sanga, and had better middle order batsmen around him too.

Well, since talking about overseas tests, India's openers weren't really that much better.

The middle order, though, yeah, that definitely helped Dravid.

 

[Jono]

They were still better than Lanka's though, and by a fair bit. They weren't world class guns but I cannot see how Sehwag smoking it in 2003 vs. Australia didn't help Dravid's amazing 2003 series. Gambhir too was good in NZ and SA in 2009-2011.

 

[Coronis]

Been thinking about Steyn a fair bit recently, so why not?

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Tendulkar
Hammond
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Marshall
Warne
Steyn
McGrath

 

[kyear2]

Bottom 6 identical to mine.

Hammond and Sutcliffe makes my third team.

 

[harsh.ag]

Mad Stats in the 4th Innings XI

Just plugged in best stats by position
- 500 runs minimum for the top 5 batsmen
- 25 wickets minimum for the bowlers

Bruce Mitchell (535 runs @ 89.16)
Jeffrey Stollmeyer (518 runs @ 86.33)

Don Bradman (572 runs @ 95.33)
Younis Khan (712 runs @ 71.20) - Chappell has > average but both played 17 innings; Younis has more runs and 100s
Misbah ul-Haq (511 runs @ 63.87)

AB de Villiers + (315 runs in the 4th innings overall @ 63.00) or Alan Knott (409 runs at number 7 in the 4th innings @ 58.42)

Richard Hadlee (32 wickets @ 15.62 as opening bowler)
Bishan Bedi (26 wickets @ 13.42 as first change bowler)
Curtly Ambrose (52 wickets as opening bowler @ 15.42)
Muttiah Muralitharan (36 wickets as second change bowler @ 24.22)

Now, I can't figure out how to pick a player for the vacant number 6 or 7 slot (depends on who you choose as the keeper). Ideas? Remember it must be a player who bats at number 6 or 7, since this is a statistical enterprise. No player at number 6 or 7 has scored 500 runs, so that criteria will have to be nullified.

Anybody willing to jump in on this?

 

[JBMAC]

Been thinking about Steyn a fair bit recently, so why not?

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Tendulkar
Hammond
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Marshall
Warne
Steyn
McGrath

Fairly reasonable side that. Probably the exception of Gilchrist.With the batting talent there you would need a first class 'keeper only. eg. Tallon, Grout, Oldfield.

 

[Red]

No Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar or Sutcliffe. No Bradman. No Sachin or Lara or Viv. No Sobers. No Gilchrist or Knott. No Marshall, McGrath, Imran or Wasim. No Warne or Murali or O'Reilly or Grimmett. Go.

Bruce Mitchell
Victor Trumper
Ricky Ponting
Greg Chappell
Jaques Kallis
Allan Border
Dennis Lindsay
Richard Hadlee
Alan Davidson
Jim Laker
Curtly Ambrose

 

[smash84]

That bowling attack is as good as any. The batting not quite