vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Interesting Trott dropping out for ODI stuff?
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***Official English Domestic Off Season 2014-2015***
- Thread starter superkingdave
- Start date
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
England are playing Australia and India in tri series at the same time. The indication from the squad is that Hales will be with the full team whilst Ballance won't - and so can tour with the lions. They are prelim squads tho - I'd imagine they'll be some give dependent on injuries/ perfomance squad/ and perfomance in odi series in Sri Lanka.
Trott thing I dislike. He was a waning force in test cricket as it was and there are just too many wounds there for him especially as we play Aus next summer. Really think they should pass by that especially as Ballance and co have done well albeit against poor attacks.
ODIs he can still offer a lot and there is less psychological pressure on him playing that. Obviously with the world cup so close it's hard to bring him in for that.
Lyth shouldn't be in the OD squad really. No great fan of Rashid but whatever possibly good to have a look at him again given our spin bowling resources.
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fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Let's hope there is as much force as there used to be in the old mantra "When Yorkshire are strong England is strong"
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Plays for an unfashionable county
Watson33
U19 12th Man
Sam Billings is another interesting one. Should surely be Buttler's backup for the world cup, but if he was to carry on his 50 over form from the summer, could he potentially nip in ahead of Buttler? Doubt it, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if he were to put those kind of numbers up again.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
No reason they couldn't both play, if Billings shows massive form. TBH, Buttler is going to be in the ODI line-up for many-a-year.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I was talking to a woman today whose son had been picked for Somerset boot-camp or summat. I asked what he played, she said all-rounder, like Ian Botham. I said, well more contempory Peter Trego, but she said that she was hoping he'd be much better than him. I had to inwardly seethe obviously.
FBU
International Debutant
Well C Overton plays for the same county and he's in. How I don't know. Up and coming bowlers Plunkett (29), Brooks (30). Rankin (30) and Overton (20). !!!
Where are Dunn, Gregory, Coles, Roland-Jones, Topley, Footitt, M Wood?
Kabir Ali will be looking for another county after being released by Lancs.
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ImpatientLime
International Regular
Because he'll be with the senior side at the time.
SeamUp
International Coach
Think the seam bowlers is the odd one really. Not exactly shouting out planning for the future or confidence in the younger brigade like Topley, Dunn, Wood, Roland-Jones, Gregory, J.Overton mentioned.
In the batting, probably got to say they have it spot on. Not many others knocking the door down. Carberry, Kieswetter & Compton forgotten men. Chopra & Tavare behind Lees, Lyth & Robson. Westley, Ansari, Foakes, Bell-Drummond, Northeast, Hain & Duckett need to do more still and young.
C. Overton claims all-rounder role but who is competing ? Will Gidman , Tom Smith & Luke Wright ? Maybe Tom Curran and Shiv Thakor down the line.
Spinners probably spot on. Already picked Riley more on potential, Ravi Patel probably similar but didn't produce the numbers at all last season. Panesar, Kerrigan and Briggs the forgotten men.
In the batting, probably got to say they have it spot on. Not many others knocking the door down. Carberry, Kieswetter & Compton forgotten men. Chopra & Tavare behind Lees, Lyth & Robson. Westley, Ansari, Foakes, Bell-Drummond, Northeast, Hain & Duckett need to do more still and young.
C. Overton claims all-rounder role but who is competing ? Will Gidman , Tom Smith & Luke Wright ? Maybe Tom Curran and Shiv Thakor down the line.
Spinners probably spot on. Already picked Riley more on potential, Ravi Patel probably similar but didn't produce the numbers at all last season. Panesar, Kerrigan and Briggs the forgotten men.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Middlesex have signed Voges as overseas player and first class captain for next season with Rogers likely on international duty with Australia.
George Edwards joined Lancs on a two year deal. Since his debut for Surrey didn't do much and seemed to struggle technically and with fitness but bowls with good pace.
Last week Tymal Mills signed for Sussex and Glos signed Geraint Jones as a batsman/captain. lol.
George Edwards joined Lancs on a two year deal. Since his debut for Surrey didn't do much and seemed to struggle technically and with fitness but bowls with good pace.
Last week Tymal Mills signed for Sussex and Glos signed Geraint Jones as a batsman/captain. lol.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
On the England front Jimmy has been rested from the SL tour with a knee problem.
On that note once Anderson and Broad's careers come to an end, I'm not exactly enamoured by how the next group of potential players are coming through. It's hard to pick really anyone that I think is gonna have a better than 50% chance of having a good international career.
Of the current lot you've got
Woakes - Will probably be around the team for a while because he is reliable and does all 3 technicalities reasonably. But will he make it as a test bowler? You'd probably say not at the moment. Maybe as a bowling allrounder.
Jordan - Like Woakes offers plenty in the field and with the bat. But his bowling is unreliable and inaccurate. When on his game does offer a realistic threat to opposing batsmen and a wickettaking threat which you haven't really seen with Woakes. (skiddy and quick with some away swing)
Gurney - Is a bad fielder and bat. Doesn't swing the ball into the right hander. Not really a good enough bowler to make up for how bad the other two aspects of his game are.
Finn - Probably the best bet of the lot to still be around in 5 years but big question marks must remain over him. Has lost some of his pace since returning and if that is permanent and so he becomes a 85mph and less bowler does he have the accuracy and the skills to be a key player?
Plunkett - 30 by the start of next season. Not exactly a model of consistency throughout his career. And if he is gonna be the out and out quick or enforcer is he really quick enough? Is 85-90mph really quick enough on its own to get out international bats consistently or does he need more to his game?
Then as fbu and seamup have said you've got the next group who are all middle aged by cricketing lifespan but until now haven't really forced the door down metaphorically.
Brooks - Was impressive this season and bowled with decent pace (80-85mph) generally whilst managing to play every game in the championship. Bowls an aggresively full length whilst getting some swing with a good bouncer. But at 30 does he have enough time to break into the team and succeed? Not sure he is a good enough bowler to gamble on at his age.
Rankin- Well fitness brings a likely end to any conversation regarding Rankin. Just no confidence that he'll turn up fit or not breakdown quickly. Shame because could be a monster of a bowler and a real asset to the ODI and T20 teams but even that seems beyond him given fitness record.
Footitt- Left armer. Can bowl quickly(85-90mph) and gets good inswing into right hander but even in this best of seasons he's just had he still was pretty erratic. Going from being brilliant to inept fairly quickly. Bowling at 87mph then 77mph. Could be an asset but way too inconsistent at present. Would be like having Mitchell Johnson at his worst but not as good. Not sure he has the time to work on the technicalities to get more consistent results out of his actions.
The problem with these 3 is that it's taken them till basically 30 to really nail down their bowling and even then Footitt and Rankin have big question marks over consistency and fitness. Unfortunately whilst there are quite a few promising players in the 18-25 group none stand out at this point either as having massive potential or put together anything like consistent performances.
Mills- Capable of being very quick but struggling with general fitness. Not really taken many wickets when given the chance
J Overton- Capable of extreme pace even before 20. But Seems in the pursuit of consistent blistering pace to have lost control on his action. Back in the second team.
Then the rest
Stone, 21 - I like. Good pace (80-85), 6'2'' ish?. Bowls wicket to wicket, decentish action (from an untrained eye). More seam than swing.
Curran, 19. Looks a real good prospect. Good action, pace and swing. Feel guilty really him turning up for England. Like Stone lacks more than 1/2 a seasons experience and had injuries problems. Both Curran and Stone are decent low order bats.
Willey. Had injuries this season but probably just lacks the pace to be an international cricketer at present. He's around 78-80mph. If he could add a little pace he has explosive batting and decent new ball skills which would make him a asset.
Topley - Injury problems. Good bet for ODI/t20 team as good variations from his height(6'7'') but lacks pace(~80mph). Swings the ball and can be near unplayable but has struggled so far in foreign conditions
C Overton- Already accurate with good variation for ODI cricket and awkward to face 6'6'' but at present is a little pedestrian (80mph). Hopefully his batting will come on to become a genuine allround option
Gregory- Has been around a while but still only 22. Was once quite sharp but now bowls a fuller length and swings it around having lost a little of his pace after lots of back injuries. Still inconsistent but is a wickettaker. Batting is inconsistent but has talent. Looks pretty slight and probably 5'11''- could work against him in tougher conditions
Morris,22- 80-83mph. Decentish action, pace and results in first season. Very accurate for someone who almost appeared from no- where at the start of the season. Not much to go wrong from the action it looks like. But does he have anything to stand out from the pack?
Miles, 20. Tall(6'4''+) and has wicket taking ability(more seam than swing). Decent pace 80-83mph. Action seemed to be a little less fluent after back injury at start of season.
Dunn- Decent pace ~85mph - explosive though with potential to be quicker. Possibly a little overrated at present. Needs to add a little craft to his pace. 6 foot but real strongly built. Thankfull that he finally got a season of county cricket under his belt.
M Wood- At nearly 25 needs to come through his injury prone phase and really start putting performances together over a season. Decent pace (~85mph) off short runup. Skiddy like Simon Jones. Around 6 foot. Action didn't look that smooth this season with a lot of effort going through the crease and not much in the runup.
Meaker - A little older(25) and has been injury prone the last season or two but I wouldn't discount him. Coming to his peak age. Bowls good pace 85-87mph and is making more use of english type conditions rather than just pace. I see a good chance for him over the next year or two between generations of Broad/anderson and Stone/Curran/Overton.
T Roland-Jones - Lack of pace(~80mph) is main worry but on form has a great rhythm and moves the ball around nicely from his 6'4''. Has really developed his batting but bowling has been a little hit or miss last season or two. Like Meaker could come between generations if he can get it together for a season or two.
Coles needs to get his weight in check before he's ever talked about with regards to England again.
Coughlin, Helm, T Taylor, Hobden - Reasonable youngsters with some potential.
With the batsmen of England I feel you can name 9 or 10 players and 6 or 7 of them will be mainstays of the different teams over the next 7-8 years. You've got Root, Ballance, Lees, Vince, Buttler, Taylor, Hales, Morgan, Roy, Cook. Imo chances are that not all of these players will succeed but most will over 1,2 or 3 formats. Bowlers I doubt you could really name any player who you'd say will be good with any conviction.
I was actually going for a real downbeat assesment of the next generation - I changed a bit having written this. There are decent youngsters- just not outstanding ones. At present there really isn't anyone I'd say he is quality right now or wow this guy has unlimited potential. That's a problem. Right now England need a good third seamer. They need more backup options for when Broad and Anderson are injured and they really need better options in ODI cricket. None of the 18-25 players are wow this guy is gonna play for england. There's quite a few promising players but none of them exude class.
I'd probably say the likeliest of the 18-25 group are Stone, Curran and C Overton but who knows. The fact is Stone and Curran have a seasons experience between them and 2 five wicket hauls in first class cricket. Maybe there are slim pickings, maybe I'm overly pessimistic. It just seems England aren't exactly overcome with options. The kids are a good way off and the current backups of Woakes, Jordan and Plunkett don't exactly exude class.
Hopefully Woakes/Jordan can step up and maybe one of Meaker/TRJ/Footitt put something together and act as a bridge between generations and one or two of the younger guys make quick steps and get over the injuries that have blighted most of them. One things for sure any injury to Anderson or Broad for any test series we play in the near future is gonna cast huge doubts over the prospects of the team especially as the spin bowling resources are even worse. Let's hope Moeen keeps going well.
On that note once Anderson and Broad's careers come to an end, I'm not exactly enamoured by how the next group of potential players are coming through. It's hard to pick really anyone that I think is gonna have a better than 50% chance of having a good international career.
Of the current lot you've got
Woakes - Will probably be around the team for a while because he is reliable and does all 3 technicalities reasonably. But will he make it as a test bowler? You'd probably say not at the moment. Maybe as a bowling allrounder.
Jordan - Like Woakes offers plenty in the field and with the bat. But his bowling is unreliable and inaccurate. When on his game does offer a realistic threat to opposing batsmen and a wickettaking threat which you haven't really seen with Woakes. (skiddy and quick with some away swing)
Gurney - Is a bad fielder and bat. Doesn't swing the ball into the right hander. Not really a good enough bowler to make up for how bad the other two aspects of his game are.
Finn - Probably the best bet of the lot to still be around in 5 years but big question marks must remain over him. Has lost some of his pace since returning and if that is permanent and so he becomes a 85mph and less bowler does he have the accuracy and the skills to be a key player?
Plunkett - 30 by the start of next season. Not exactly a model of consistency throughout his career. And if he is gonna be the out and out quick or enforcer is he really quick enough? Is 85-90mph really quick enough on its own to get out international bats consistently or does he need more to his game?
Then as fbu and seamup have said you've got the next group who are all middle aged by cricketing lifespan but until now haven't really forced the door down metaphorically.
Brooks - Was impressive this season and bowled with decent pace (80-85mph) generally whilst managing to play every game in the championship. Bowls an aggresively full length whilst getting some swing with a good bouncer. But at 30 does he have enough time to break into the team and succeed? Not sure he is a good enough bowler to gamble on at his age.
Rankin- Well fitness brings a likely end to any conversation regarding Rankin. Just no confidence that he'll turn up fit or not breakdown quickly. Shame because could be a monster of a bowler and a real asset to the ODI and T20 teams but even that seems beyond him given fitness record.
Footitt- Left armer. Can bowl quickly(85-90mph) and gets good inswing into right hander but even in this best of seasons he's just had he still was pretty erratic. Going from being brilliant to inept fairly quickly. Bowling at 87mph then 77mph. Could be an asset but way too inconsistent at present. Would be like having Mitchell Johnson at his worst but not as good. Not sure he has the time to work on the technicalities to get more consistent results out of his actions.
The problem with these 3 is that it's taken them till basically 30 to really nail down their bowling and even then Footitt and Rankin have big question marks over consistency and fitness. Unfortunately whilst there are quite a few promising players in the 18-25 group none stand out at this point either as having massive potential or put together anything like consistent performances.
Mills- Capable of being very quick but struggling with general fitness. Not really taken many wickets when given the chance
J Overton- Capable of extreme pace even before 20. But Seems in the pursuit of consistent blistering pace to have lost control on his action. Back in the second team.
Then the rest
Stone, 21 - I like. Good pace (80-85), 6'2'' ish?. Bowls wicket to wicket, decentish action (from an untrained eye). More seam than swing.
Curran, 19. Looks a real good prospect. Good action, pace and swing. Feel guilty really him turning up for England. Like Stone lacks more than 1/2 a seasons experience and had injuries problems. Both Curran and Stone are decent low order bats.
Willey. Had injuries this season but probably just lacks the pace to be an international cricketer at present. He's around 78-80mph. If he could add a little pace he has explosive batting and decent new ball skills which would make him a asset.
Topley - Injury problems. Good bet for ODI/t20 team as good variations from his height(6'7'') but lacks pace(~80mph). Swings the ball and can be near unplayable but has struggled so far in foreign conditions
C Overton- Already accurate with good variation for ODI cricket and awkward to face 6'6'' but at present is a little pedestrian (80mph). Hopefully his batting will come on to become a genuine allround option
Gregory- Has been around a while but still only 22. Was once quite sharp but now bowls a fuller length and swings it around having lost a little of his pace after lots of back injuries. Still inconsistent but is a wickettaker. Batting is inconsistent but has talent. Looks pretty slight and probably 5'11''- could work against him in tougher conditions
Morris,22- 80-83mph. Decentish action, pace and results in first season. Very accurate for someone who almost appeared from no- where at the start of the season. Not much to go wrong from the action it looks like. But does he have anything to stand out from the pack?
Miles, 20. Tall(6'4''+) and has wicket taking ability(more seam than swing). Decent pace 80-83mph. Action seemed to be a little less fluent after back injury at start of season.
Dunn- Decent pace ~85mph - explosive though with potential to be quicker. Possibly a little overrated at present. Needs to add a little craft to his pace. 6 foot but real strongly built. Thankfull that he finally got a season of county cricket under his belt.
M Wood- At nearly 25 needs to come through his injury prone phase and really start putting performances together over a season. Decent pace (~85mph) off short runup. Skiddy like Simon Jones. Around 6 foot. Action didn't look that smooth this season with a lot of effort going through the crease and not much in the runup.
Meaker - A little older(25) and has been injury prone the last season or two but I wouldn't discount him. Coming to his peak age. Bowls good pace 85-87mph and is making more use of english type conditions rather than just pace. I see a good chance for him over the next year or two between generations of Broad/anderson and Stone/Curran/Overton.
T Roland-Jones - Lack of pace(~80mph) is main worry but on form has a great rhythm and moves the ball around nicely from his 6'4''. Has really developed his batting but bowling has been a little hit or miss last season or two. Like Meaker could come between generations if he can get it together for a season or two.
Coles needs to get his weight in check before he's ever talked about with regards to England again.
Coughlin, Helm, T Taylor, Hobden - Reasonable youngsters with some potential.
With the batsmen of England I feel you can name 9 or 10 players and 6 or 7 of them will be mainstays of the different teams over the next 7-8 years. You've got Root, Ballance, Lees, Vince, Buttler, Taylor, Hales, Morgan, Roy, Cook. Imo chances are that not all of these players will succeed but most will over 1,2 or 3 formats. Bowlers I doubt you could really name any player who you'd say will be good with any conviction.
I was actually going for a real downbeat assesment of the next generation - I changed a bit having written this. There are decent youngsters- just not outstanding ones. At present there really isn't anyone I'd say he is quality right now or wow this guy has unlimited potential. That's a problem. Right now England need a good third seamer. They need more backup options for when Broad and Anderson are injured and they really need better options in ODI cricket. None of the 18-25 players are wow this guy is gonna play for england. There's quite a few promising players but none of them exude class.
I'd probably say the likeliest of the 18-25 group are Stone, Curran and C Overton but who knows. The fact is Stone and Curran have a seasons experience between them and 2 five wicket hauls in first class cricket. Maybe there are slim pickings, maybe I'm overly pessimistic. It just seems England aren't exactly overcome with options. The kids are a good way off and the current backups of Woakes, Jordan and Plunkett don't exactly exude class.
Hopefully Woakes/Jordan can step up and maybe one of Meaker/TRJ/Footitt put something together and act as a bridge between generations and one or two of the younger guys make quick steps and get over the injuries that have blighted most of them. One things for sure any injury to Anderson or Broad for any test series we play in the near future is gonna cast huge doubts over the prospects of the team especially as the spin bowling resources are even worse. Let's hope Moeen keeps going well.
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fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I see Shahzad has gone to Sussex - they seem to do very well at having players who, itbt, are good enough to play for England but for whatever reason are not in favour with the selectors - can see them doing very well next year
Woodster
International Captain
Abdur Rehman is to return to Somerset for the 2015 season and for the entire campaign and is available for all three formats. These type of signings are surely the type every county looks for in terms of full committed availability with only an outside chance of an international call up to disrupt the club's plans. Of course these may not be the type of top of the range players anymore and not as likely to sell a ground out, but their value in changing room continuity and, of course in this case, the experience of Rehman in playing at the highest level could be invaluable. Especially so at Somerset with George Dockrell and Jack Leach, two promising left-arm spinners, for them learn as much as they can from the former Pakistan Test spinner.
My first concern though was with Rehman dropping out of the Pakistan Test picture despite Ajmal's enforced absence, has his career began drawing to a close ? So I had a look at his current stats in the Pakistan first-class comp, and he's the leading wicket taker for Habib Bank in the five matches so far with 26 wickets at less than 20. This could be a very good signing for Somerset as they look to force many more much needed victories next year to take them closer to the top.
My first concern though was with Rehman dropping out of the Pakistan Test picture despite Ajmal's enforced absence, has his career began drawing to a close ? So I had a look at his current stats in the Pakistan first-class comp, and he's the leading wicket taker for Habib Bank in the five matches so far with 26 wickets at less than 20. This could be a very good signing for Somerset as they look to force many more much needed victories next year to take them closer to the top.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah it's a good signing if he isn't being picked by Pakistan. I would have probably preffered an Oz seamer like Rimmington. Nogan, Copeland and Goffers have shown these second-string Ozzies can be pretty effective. Our seam bowlers always seem to be injured too much, Thomas has picked up a bad injury so we can't expect him to play much at his age.
Yet it's an huge improvement on Alviro, who did OK, but was not what we needed. CK, Compton, Hildreth, Tres, should all have full seasons we should expect runs from them.
Woodster
International Captain
Is there a need for more batting at Somerset ? I mean those four players you mentioned should in theory ensure Somerset are nearly always competitive with the bat but I know a few were touting another overseas batsman as perhaps being more integral to the side than another spinner. Personally having drawn so many games last season a bowler that can turn some of those draws into victories, especially at Taunton, would be more valuable to the side, and in Rehman they may just have signed the right man.