***Official*** India in England 2014

[Howe_zat]

Will be disappointed if Stokes gets left out again after having proven form and fitness in the county game this week.

 

[Teja.]

Just read that Alaistar Cook said Vampire James is the best bowler England have ever produced.

I mean I get that as his captain he has to give him love but it's an opinion so outlandish that it is comedic. From the country which has produced Trueman, Larwood and Barnes to think of three important names...

 

[GIMH]

Just read that Alaistar Cook said Vampire James is the best bowler England have ever produced.

I mean I get that as his captain he has to give him love but it's an opinion so outlandish that it is comedic. From the country which has produced Trueman, Larwood and Barnes to think of three important names...

Almost as funny as people calling him vampire tbf

He's about to be the leading wicket taker, 99 Tests as a quick who's had a few tough injuries. Took us to #1 in the world, spearheaded a win in Australia, played a massive part in our first Test win in India for 20 years and then our first series win there in even longer.

The past couple of years have been hard to swallow as an England fan but the last five have been some of the best in relative terms and Anderson was essential to them

I don't think he's our best ever but it's not as ridiculous as CW likes to make out

 

[Cabinet96]

Easily the best in Cook's lifetime as well, so it's not that surprising.

 

[GIMH]

Easily the best in Cook's lifetime as well, so it's not that surprising.

I'm sure some would argue with that. But I agree.

I think Broad has been better as a whole across the last 2 years and could go on to surpass Anderson. But for the time being you're on the money.

 

[Teja.]

Broad and Anderson have scarily similar records over the last five years and they both average 27 and have 439 wickets between them in that period. That's a pretty ****ing great opening bowling pair.

Broad is such an underrated bowler. The difference in quality between Anderson and Broad is minimal at best yet Broad's place in the team is questioned every second game and Anderson's legend keeps rising whenever he takes a wicket. Plus Broad bats.

Cook should've said that about Broad, then I'd be making intellectually dishonest arguments supporting him.

 

[Furball]

In other news, why is Cook calling Anderson the most skillful bowler in the world?

Because he is. Anderson is Wasim to Steyn's McGrath IMO*. One has more tricks up his sleeve, the other one's just better at getting ****s out.

*admittedly the Anderson-Steyn gap is much wider than Wasim-McGrath but the point stands.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think both GIMH and I would agree that Broad is better these days and has been better last two or three years. But the main difference between the two is Anderson's performance in Australia and India in the respective series victories. Obviously Broad had injuries then but it's a big reason why Anderson is rated a bit higher IMO (as well as slightly greater longevity).

 

[GIMH]

Broad and Anderson have scarily similar records over the last five years and they both average 27 and have 439 wickets between them in that period. That's a pretty ****ing great opening bowling pair.

Broad is such an underrated bowler. The difference in quality between Anderson and Broad is minimal at best yet Broad's place in the team is questioned every second game and Anderson's legend keeps rising whenever he takes a wicket. Plus Broad bats.

Cook should've said that about Broad, then I'd be making intellectually dishonest arguments supporting him.

Yeah I made a post after the last Test about their records since Broad started bowling well in the 2009 Ashes, think there was less than 0.5 between their averages.

Broad definitely gets his head called for unreasonably quickly; presumably because of his personality. And he does have bad games but more than makes up for it

Would imagine despite the similar records Broad has more 5Fers in that period. Which tells you he's won more games single handedly but contributed less to the team with the ball across series as a whole. Maybe.

 

[GIMH]

I think both GIMH and I would agree that Broad is better these days and has been better last two or three years. But the main difference between the two is Anderson's performance in Australia and India in the respective series victories. Obviously Broad had injuries then but it's a big reason why Anderson is rated a bit higher IMO (as well as slightly greater longevity).

Yeah true. Broad's home series V India in 2011 though man. Second best series performance by an England player in my life

 

[Furball]

Yeah I made a post after the last Test about their records since Broad started bowling well in the 2009 Ashes, think there was less than 0.5 between their averages.

Broad definitely gets his head called for unreasonably quickly; presumably because of his personality. And he does have bad games but more than makes up for it

Would imagine despite the similar records Broad has more 5Fers in that period. Which tells you he's won more games single handedly but contributed less to the team with the ball across series as a whole. Maybe.

Agree with all of this, however IMO Anderson is by far and away England's most important player and has been for the last 5 years. When Anderson has a rare shocker, the rest of the bowling goes to pieces; England's good bowling performances all feature Anderson bowling tightly and threateningly while someone else (usually Broad) wrecks the opposition.

 

[GIMH]

Agree with all of this, however IMO Anderson is by far and away England's most important player and has been for the last 5 years. When Anderson has a rare shocker, the rest of the bowling goes to pieces; England's good bowling performances all feature Anderson bowling tightly and threateningly while someone else (usually Broad) wrecks the opposition.

I don't agree completely but there is an element of truth to what you say.

Cook the most important player for me though.

 

[Teja.]

I think both GIMH and I would agree that Broad is better these days and has been better last two or three years. But the main difference between the two is Anderson's performance in Australia and India in the respective series victories. Obviously Broad had injuries then but it's a big reason why Anderson is rated a bit higher IMO (as well as slightly greater longevity).

I understand that the Ashes are incredibly important to England and in that context Anderson being very good down under in 10/11 is significant but Broad's performance vs. India in the billed 1 v. 2 series in '11 is something several planes above anything Anderson can ever imagine doing though.

Overall, I agree that the vamp has been very slightly better in the last five years with Broad being better now but the difference in attitudes and respect people have towards their bowling is insane when there is such a small gap in quality.

 

[Adders]

I think possibly there may still be a little frustration where Broad is concerned......his ceiling is higher than Jimmy's but he still has this reputation (getting more unfair by the day though) that he only delivers once a series.

Jimmy is pretty darned consistent and has been for 5 or 6 years...........I guess when Broad is not ripping the heart out of a side and taking 6 for 30 people think he is off his game??

 

[Furball]

I understand that the Ashes are incredibly important to England and in that context Anderson being very good down under in 10/11 is significant but Broad's performance vs. India in the billed 1 v. 2 series in '11 is something several planes above anything Anderson can ever imagine doing though.

Overall, I agree that the vamp has been very slightly better in the last five years with Broad being better now but the difference in attitudes and respect people have towards their bowling is insane when there is such a small gap in quality.

If you keep up with this vamp chat then we're going to fall out.

 

[Teja.]

If you keep up with this vamp chat then we're going to fall out.

I'd have thought it would have caught on endearingly by now.

 

[GIMH]

I understand that the Ashes are incredibly important to England and in that context Anderson being very good down under in 10/11 is significant but Broad's performance vs. India in the billed 1 v. 2 series in '11 is something several planes above anything Anderson can ever imagine doing though.

Overall, I agree that the vamp has been very slightly better in the last five years with Broad being better now but the difference in attitudes and respect people have towards their bowling is insane when there is such a small gap in quality.

See, I agree, as I said earlier, Broad's performance V India was one of the great series. With bat as well. Without his first innings with the bat and then hat-trick then India quite conceivably win at Trent Bridge and then who knows what happens

That being said. Without Anderson down under in 2010-11, England likely don't win that series. Regardless of how poor Australia were and the fact Cook was rightly MOTS. Without that series win, we don't go to #1 and tbh we probably don't beat India 4-0.

All conjecture but winning in Australia is a bigger deal than any home win, ever. Broad's performance V India stands second only to Freddie's Ashes in 21st century England performances for me but what Anderson did was far more significant.

Similarly, 12@30 may not look much away to India but no other seamer took more than 4 wickets in that series. And winning in India, well even the great sides struggle to do that.

The when is arguably more important than the how.

 

[DriveClub]

Lol the poms now comparing Anderson to Steyn despite one averaging 22 and the other "English" great averaging 30 lmao He can learn as many skills as much as he wants but he's still an above average bowler bigged up by poms. While Steyn will end up an ATG this English **** will end up as another one of those also rans. The by-product of a system that produces a lot of competent players but no real ATG talent. A country with no talents but all talk.

 

[Cabinet96]

They do it just so that everyone has a cry about it again.

Yep, every time.

 

[GIMH]

Lol the poms now comparing Anderson to Steyn despite one averaging 22 and the other "English" great averaging 30 lmao He can learn as many skills as much as he wants but he's still an above average bowler bigged up by poms. While Steyn will end up an ATG this English **** will end up as another one of those also rans. The by-product of a system that produces a lot of competent players but no real ATG talent. A country with no talents but all talk.

What's actually the point of you?