Dale Steyn

[OverratedSanity]

Steyn's coolness being underrated in this thread.

 

[indiaholic]

I wouldn't be surprised if he moves past McGrath on my personal ATG scale by the time he retires.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I have Steyn disdain.

I am yet to see Steyn bat one handed with his arm in plaster; guiding a team mate to a century. Get back to me when he does that if you want to argue whether he's cooler than Marshall.

He then went on to take 7 for bugger all in the same test, still with his left thumb in a complete mess.

If he achieves the above, he still won't even be in the same Galaxy of Cool that Malcolm Denzil Marshall will forever reside in.

Plus, Steyn isn't as good a bowler. Objectively, subjectively - rejectively.

 

[Daemon]

I doubt there has been anything more intense in the history of cricket than Dale Steyn in crazy eyes mode.

 

[watson]

Seen Marshall bowl. Watched Steyn.

Marshall is the better bowler and marginally better numbers won't change that. End of story.

 

[Daemon]

says the guy who hasn't watched a single day of test cricket in the 21st century

 

[akilana]

Seen Marshall bowl. Watched Steyn.

Marshall is the better bowler and marginally better numbers won't change that. End of story.

Was Marshall a better bowler than Lillee??

 

[Slifer]

My favorite bowler ATM is Dale Steyn and he is easily in the top 5 greatest fast bowlers (or there about). Incredible SR, WPM etc. But his SR aside MM was never ever goin' to match him or the likes of Lillee or Hadlee in the WPM category and it's fairly obvious why. Steyn has had to compete with Morkel and Philander (20 odd tests) vs Holding/Roberts/Croft/Walsh/Ambrose/Bishop/Garner etc.

Steyn's record as outstanding as it is, is not as well-rounded as MM. MM as we all recall averaged sub 23 vs all comers and sub 25 home and away vs all (except 3 measly tests away to NZ averaged 32). Holding Steyn to the same standards, he averages 25+ home and away vs OZ and England (30+ home and away vs ENG). I suspect he ma well 'correct' his record his record vs both teams (more so England) before his career is over. But for me because of his reputation, well rounded stats, overall outstanding stats MM is still numero 1. Steyn is up there as well no doubt and the more he carries on the more he erodes what ever little gap that exists between him and MM (and Mcgrath my other co #1)

 

[akilana]

My favorite bowler ATM is Dale Steyn and he is easily in the top 5 greatest fast bowlers (or there about). Incredible SR, WPM etc. But his SR aside MM was never ever goin' to match him or the likes of Lillee or Hadlee in the WPM category and it's fairly obvious why. Steyn has had to compete with Morkel and Philander (20 odd tests) vs Holding/Roberts/Croft/Walsh/Ambrose/Bishop/Garner)

It's also why MM was able to keep a more complete record

 

[watson]

says the guy who hasn't watched a single day of test cricket in the 21st century

brilliant

 

[watson]

Was Marshall a better bowler than Lillee??

That's a toughie. Head says Marshall, heart says Lillee.

 

[viriya]

But what does the fox say though?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Steyn has had to complete with Morkel and Philander for the past 20 tests, in which time his wpm is still >5. Before that he still bowled alongside good bowlers like Pollock(past his prime but still good), Ntini, Kallis, etc. I find his wpm the most remarkable thing about his stats.

 

[Teja.]

Leaving out years which they played when they were absolute rooks and played only one or two tests, Steyn has 9 years of longevity, McGrath has 13, Marshall has 12. All of tehm have been remarkably durable. Hadlee has about fifteen with a worse injury record

I definitely think the time has come to start contemplating where he stands in the pantheon. His rate of prolific wicket-taking while being part of a strong bowling line-up made possible due to his absurd rate of striking is not something that is matched by other pacers. The advantage Steyn has over the likes of McGrath is that the other great pacers prefer to bowl immaculate lengths and pile on the pressure on such tracks leading to the batsmen making mistakes and them ending up with match figures like 3-50 or 6-130 but Steyn actually destroys whole teams on such tracks and creates wins out of draws though he'll go wicket-less once in a while. It's something not represented in bare stats but is incredibly important IMO. I mean I'm sure McGrath and Gillespie both average the same 20-22 as Steyn in India/Asia but Steyn has wrecked entire games in SA's favour on tracks he has absolutely no business doing so in a way that they haven't despite having the opportunity to do so. It's not like Steyn benefits on wickets such as those by being the only elite bowler by taking 6 wickets over 450 runs, When he strikes, the opposition are seven down at 150 not knowing what hit them.

I'd say he's gone ahead of the Ambrose/Imran class and has Marshall, Hadlee and McGrath ahead of him. I'm fairly sure by the time he ends his career he'd have surpassed Marshall and McGrath and maybe even Hadlee who I regard as the best of them all post-1920.

I consider him the greatest ever bowler period on a road even now. There's no-one I'd rather have pitching it up like it's Jo'burg on a track flatter than Keira Knightley. There are simply no compromises with Steyn.

 

[OverratedSanity]

My favorite bowler ATM is Dale Steyn and he is easily in the top 5 greatest fast bowlers (or there about). Incredible SR, WPM etc. But his SR aside MM was never ever goin' to match him or the likes of Lillee or Hadlee in the WPM category and it's fairly obvious why. Steyn has had to compete. with Morkel and Philander (20 odd tests) vs Holding/Roberts/Croft/Walsh/Ambrose/Bishop/Garner etc.

Steyn's record as outstanding as it is, is not as well-rounded as MM. MM as we all recall averaged sub 23 vs all comers and sub 25 home and away vs all (except 3 measly tests away to NZ averaged 32). Holding Steyn to the same standards, he averages 25+ home and away vs OZ and England (30+ home and away vs ENG). I suspect he ma well 'correct' his record his record vs both teams (more so England) before his career is over. But for me because of his reputation, well rounded stats, overall outstanding stats MM is still numero 1. Steyn is up there as well no doubt and the more he carries on the more he erodes what ever little gap that exists between him and MM (and Mcgrath my other co #1)

Comparing country by country records for players across eras is never fair. England's batting was most definitely weaker in marshall's time than it has been for the last 10 years or so. They both played very different 'Englands'. Australia on the other hand has produced on average flatter wickets than in marshall's time.

Despite this though, Steyn was the best bowler in the series win in England (those who say Philander was better based on average didn't watch the series) and has produced two brilliant series-clinching spells on consecutive tours to Australia. Good enough imo

 

[akilana]

Comparing country by country records for players across eras is never fair. England's batting was most definitely weaker in marshall's time than it has been for the last 10 years or so. They both played very different 'Englands'. Australia on the other hand has produced on average flatter wickets than in marshall's time.

Despite this though, Steyn was the best bowler in the series win in England (those who say Philander was better based on average didn't watch the series) and has produced two brilliant series-clinching spells on consecutive tours to Australia. Good enough imo

He took 15 wickets but was a bit expensive by his standard. It was the first full series he played against England though

 

[OverratedSanity]

He took 15 wickets but was a bit expensive by his standard. It was the first full series he played against England.

It was a tough, tough series for bowlers. He was the highest wicketttaker and produced key breakthroughs in each match. He just ran into KP in a bit of a mood, otherwise he looked like rolling over England at Headingley too. Was a damn good series performance from him which gets overlooked because Philander had that admittedly superb spell on the final day.

 

[rza]

Steyn is the GOAT for me at the moment, that record in the subcontinent is enough to put him ahead of McGrath and Marshall. You have to admire Mcgrath's longevity and his total wickets though. If Steyn gets to 600 wickets with more or less the same average and strike rates then nobogy should questiin his GOAT status. For now maybe we should bite our time before anointing him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Leaving out years which they played when they were absolute rooks and played only one or two tests, Steyn has 9 years of longevity, McGrath has 13, Marshall has 12. All of tehm have been remarkably durable. Hadlee has about fifteen with a worse injury record

I definitely think the time has come to start contemplating where he stands in the pantheon. His rate of prolific wicket-taking while being part of a strong bowling line-up made possible due to his absurd rate of striking is not something that is matched by other pacers. The advantage Steyn has over the likes of McGrath is that the other great pacers prefer to bowl immaculate lengths and pile on the pressure on such tracks leading to the batsmen making mistakes and them ending up with match figures like 3-50 or 6-130 but Steyn actually destroys whole teams on such tracks and creates wins out of draws though he'll go wicket-less once in a while. It's something not represented in bare stats but is incredibly important IMO. I mean I'm sure McGrath and Gillespie both average the same 20-22 as Steyn in India/Asia but Steyn has wrecked entire games in SA's favour on tracks he has absolutely no business doing so in a way that they haven't despite having the opportunity to do so. It's not like Steyn benefits on wickets such as those by being the only elite bowler by taking 6 wickets over 450 runs, When he strikes, the opposition are seven down at 150 not knowing what hit them.

I'd say he's gone ahead of the Ambrose/Imran class and has Marshall, Hadlee and McGrath ahead of him. I'm fairly sure by the time he ends his career he'd have surpassed Marshall and McGrath and maybe even Hadlee who I regard as the best of them all post-1920.

I consider him the greatest ever bowler period on a road even now. There's no-one I'd rather have pitching it up like it's Jo'burg on a track flatter than Keira Knightley. There are simply no compromises with Steyn.

I agree with this. Personally have never seen anyone demolish teams like he does on dead pitches. Picking up 10 wickets on pitches like Nagpur and Galle takes something truly remarkable.

 

[Cabinet96]

I have Steyn disdain.

I am yet to see Steyn bat one handed with his arm in plaster; guiding a team mate to a century. Get back to me when he does that if you want to argue whether he's cooler than Marshall.

He then went on to take 7 for bugger all in the same test, still with his left thumb in a complete mess.

If he achieves the above, he still won't even be in the same Galaxy of Cool that Malcolm Denzil Marshall will forever reside in.

Plus, Steyn isn't as good a bowler. Objectively, subjectively - rejectively.

How about getting his hands smashed by Mitchell Johnson et al, en route to 76, while taking 10 wickets either side in one of modern crickets greatest comebacks to secure South Africa's first series win in Australia since readmission?