MS Dhoni should not bat at number six.

[Teja.]

Primarily, even looking at it from an isolated POV, he's just not good enough to bat at No. 6 in a decent test side. He now averages in the 20s outside the SC, he has absolutely nfi what to do when the ball is doing anything off the pitch and he trusts himself too much to leave the ball once in a while and grind it out when he's clearly not up to it.

Additionally, whatever (or not) shortcomings Rohit has against the moving ball, he's about eight times as complete a long form batsman as Dhoni, has a beautiful forward defensive and different gears when the situation requires it. He may well be average in English/Australian conditions but he'd have to under perform pretty ****ing appallingly to be anywhere close to as bad as Dhoni. We'd also be building up somebody who obviously has a very high chance of becoming the long term number six for India over the next ten years or so being decent or good or great as opposed to the opportunity cost of having Dhoni trying to unsuccessfully show off his virility by trying to go forward and drive a terribly bowled full ball on a green top.

Further, our strength right now are our batting stocks. Randomly increasing the spread of the number of overs bowled by bits-and-pieces players who have no chance of being even average at test level is not going to help us at all. We have to have someone who we at least can envisage as averaging 40+ across the world (not pedantically statistically in every country but as a general benchmark) and have the ability to knuckle down and play a rearguard when the situation demands it which is arguably the most important role you find yourself in at number six.

MS, you're a v. cool guy but no test match number six.

 

[Riggins]

Well no ****.

 

[harsh.ag]

I just think if you are going to sacrifice Rohit's place, then it should be for Ashwin, not Binny.

 

[GIMH]

Next week from Teja: Alastair Cook should not bowl with the new ball

 

[Teja.]

Next week from Teja: Alastair Cook should not bowl with the new ball

but this is actually happening.

Anyway, this thread was meant for general discussion with what India do wrt 6/7/8 and Jadeja/Dhoni/Sharma/Binny/other. Think it deserves its own thread because it's obviously a long term issue.

 

[Prince EWS]

Despite having an almost irrational hatred for Dhoni's batting, I think this is fine at home (or even in other Asian countries), but it really shouldn't be a consideration at all outside Asia.

 

[Cabinet96]

For games in the SC I'd go; Dhoni, Jadeja, Ashwin, Kumar as 6-9.

Overseas I'm sightly torn. I don't particularly rate him but I don't have the same irrational hate of him that Cribb does, so I can somewhat get behind a similar batting lineup.

 

[Jono]

Play ****ing Rohit Sharma.

 

[Daemon]

Would take the greater risk of a collapse against good bowling and have the extra bowler (not Binny though, obv). It really hurt us in SA and NZ. cbf about losing, a test win overseas would be really awesome.

Basically we gotta be prepared to lose to win.

 

[Furball]

For games in the SC I'd go; Dhoni, Jadeja, Ashwin, Kumar as 6-9.

Overseas I'm sightly torn. I don't particularly rate him but I don't have the same irrational hate of him that Cribb does, so I can somewhat get behind a similar batting lineup.

5 bowlers in the subcontient is madness.

6 best bats, wicketkeeper, 4 best bowlers. It's not ****ing hard.

 

[Watson33]

Really isn't a debate. In the shorter formats of the game he is a no.6 and maybe in test matches at home. But I can't see him ever grinding out a draw and protecting the tail from a collapse if it were to happen. Plays too many shots in swinging conditions.

 

[hendrix]

Would take the greater risk of a collapse against good bowling and have the extra bowler (not Binny though, obv). It really hurt us in SA and NZ. cbf about losing, a test win overseas would be really awesome.

Basically we gotta be prepared to lose to win.

Ashwin is a good batsman IMO. I would even bat him ahead of Dhoni.

 

[Teja.]

Ashwin is a good batsman IMO. I would even bat him ahead of Dhoni.

Most here would. The thing which matters is Dhoni won't though.

 

[Cabinet96]

5 bowlers in the subcontient is madness.

6 best bats, wicketkeeper, 4 best bowlers. It's not ****ing hard.

Fine Bhuvi can move up to six.

Edit: Seriously though, I tend to agree for the most part, but India's two best spinners (or at least, the two who are highest in the pecking order) are natural all-rounders who are probably best suited to 7 and you'd have to play Bhuvi as one of the two seamers, who's a good number 8. Allows you room for manoeuvre so I don't see why you'd flat bat the chance of five bowlers so simply.

 

[Furball]

Fine Bhuvi can move up to six.

Edit: Seriously though, I tend to agree for the most part, but India's two best spinners (or at least, the two who are highest in the pecking order) are natural all-rounders who are probably best suited to 7 and you'd have to play Bhuvi as one of the two seamers, who's a good number 8. Allows you room for manoeuvre so I don't see why you'd flat bat the chance of five bowlers so simply.

Great, that just gives you a ridiculously deep batting lineup. Rohit Sharma would add more to the team at home than whatever prank 3rd seamer you're lining up.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yadav's not exactly prank tbf.

 

[CricAddict]

Binny played well in his very first test and has failed in his second test. As a fifth bowler, his job is to share the workload of the pacers and chip in with 1-2 wickets in a test if possible. We should give him more time and he should play at 6 before Dhoni. Ashwin is the ready replacement at home for him. With the Jadeja-Ash-Bhuvi advantage, India can always go in with 5 bowlers.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Rohit at 6, Ashwin at 7 and Dhoni at 8 is the way to go overseas. Can't believe how underrated Ashwin's batting is here in this thread. He didn't just bash West Indies, he got some very good scores against England and in Australia too. He's definitely the one most likely to fulfilhhis potential as an all rounder for us.

 

[hendrix]

Rohit at 6, Ashwin at 7 and Dhoni at 8 is the way to go overseas. Can't believe how underrated Ashwin's batting is here in this thread. He didn't just bash West Indies, he got some very good scores against England and in Australia too. He's definitely the one most likely to fulfilhhis potential as an all rounder for us.

For me that's still only 3.5 bowlers given how hit or miss Ashwin's bowling can be.

I think India can genuinely afford to play 5 bowlers given the batting capabilities of Ashwin and Bhuvi.

for overseas tests I'd go:
3 pacers
Ashwin
Jadeja/Ojha/another pacer

 

[Arjun]

Forget bat at six, Dhoni shouldn't even be in the side! We already have Naman Ojha who's scoring century after century against Australia A in Australia, and has been very impressive with the bat since his State team was promoted to a higher league. You can play five proper bowlers alongside him, if not under him. And he also takes the initiative with the bat, unlike Dhoni, who tries to hide at seven and below.