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FINAL - Germany vs Argentina

Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
BoyBrumby said:
Just on Messi not being an ATG as he's never properly done it in a WC: Alfredo Di Stefano and Georgie Best never even played in a finals tournament...
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Messi's performed more consistently at a higher level than Maradona or Pele.

edit: I'm 99% sure di Stefano appeared for Spain in 1962.
 
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Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
dontcloseyoureyes said:
So how long before they invade Poland again?

You brought this upon yourselves! Supporting the Germans ffs.
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With Klose and Podolski in the squad I assumed that had already happened.

Sobering thought that Germany won that without a left back and without their best forward.
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
grecian said:
How the hell is it negligible, if he'd scored it would have been his climax and greatest moment. Negligible is almost totally opposite to what it is. In the end it would show he was great, it would show he held is nerve in the most pressure-cooker moment. It hasn't written off his career but it has seriously hindered his claims as greatest ever.

Again as I'm sure people will just concentrate on other stuff, my main point for arguing with Halz post is "negligible"
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Well it is negligible in the sense that he has played in 549 games in his career, of which 14 have been in the World Cup (assuming wiki is up to date).

I did make the point that it may well have been his "biggest" moment, but it has a negligible impact on how good he actually is.
 
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Cabinet96

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
Furball said:
With Klose and Podolski in the squad I assumed that had already happened.

Sobering thought that Germany won that without a left back and without their best forward.
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And arguably, their best box to box CM (Gundogan).

It's weird, they kind of had a choker/bottler tag, but so many of their players have won things in the last couple of years, it kind of disappeared in between this and the last Euros.
 
grecian

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tom Halsey said:
Well it is negligible in the sense that he has played in 549 games in his career, of which 14 have been in the World Cup (assuming wiki is up to date).

I did make the point that it may well have been his "biggest" moment, but it has a negligible impact on how good he actually is.
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It doesn't though, greatest moments are there to create greatness, I'm not saying he's not an ATG, but that lack of finish is in no way negligible in the discussion, in fact it will probably take up more than it deserves in future discussions. It matters big moments matter, how can they not? Sport is about big moments.
 
sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
grecian said:
It doesn't though, greatest moments are there to create greatness, I'm not saying he's not an ATG, but that lack of finish is in no way negligible in the discussion, in fact it will probably take up more than it deserves in future discussions. It matters big moments matter, how can they not? Sport is about big moments.
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Messi has not exactly been short on big moments tbh.
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
grecian said:
It doesn't though, greatest moments are there to create greatness, I'm not saying he's not an ATG, but that lack of finish is in no way negligible in the discussion, in fact it will probably take up more than it deserves in future discussions. It matters big moments matter, how can they not? Sport is about big moments.
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Yeah but that's my point. I'm not denying it will be remembered and talked about but it will be given far too much weighting when people are weighing up how great he was.

It's a theoretical discussion really and we are never going to agree; you think big moments matter far more than I do and neither of us is going to convince the other any differently.
 
grecian

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
FFS we're not particularly disagreeing, but it's not ****ing negligible

-negligible
ˈnɛglɪdʒɪb(ə)l/
adjective
so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant.

It's a thing, decide it how you will, but it surely matters.
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Meh. I think 14 games out of 549 fits that definition, and if we are talking about just that one moment then it fits that definition even more emphatically.

The fact that Messi missed a chance in that one moment out of however many thousands of pieces of play/moments/whatever he has been involved in during his career has made almost literally no impact on how good or otherwise I think he is so, and obviously this is just my opinion, no it doesn't really matter.

EDIT: Last post on this as I imagine a discussion of semantics is fairly boring for everyone else in a thread on the final.
 
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Cabinet96

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
So apparently Toni Kroos is the first (and most likely last) player to have been born in the former East Germany, to have ever won a World Cup.
 
grecian

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tom Halsey said:
Meh. I think 14 games out of 549 fits that definition, and if we are talking about just that one moment then it fits that definition even more emphatically.

The fact that Messi missed a chance in that one moment out of however many thousands of pieces of play/moments/whatever he has been involved in during his career has made almost literally no impact on how good or otherwise I think he is so, and obviously this is just my opinion, no it doesn't really matter.
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Well we'll utterly disagree because it wasn't a fractional moment in one of his many matches, it was a defining moment that he clearly knew was a massive mment in his carrer and life, means practically everything.

I like you Tom but I'm wondering why your defending this negligible thing. It clearly isn't, and there are other words to describe how little it matters without trying to pretend it doesn't matter at all.
 
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