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***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Trent Boult and Tim Southee shepherded New Zealand to their first series win away from home against a top-eight nation in 12 years.
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That's the line on cricinfo underscoring how big this achievement is.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Slifer said:
I have to admit that Boult especially looks like the real deal
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Blocky does have a point that he loses a great deal of effectiveness when the ball isn't swinging as much.

But Southee overcame that problem so all odds are that Boult will learn too.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
So NZ is scheduled to play Pakistan next...really happy to see that it's of the 3 test variety. That should provide a lithmus test to see just how good this NZ team really is. IMO Nz is good (no doubt).
 
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Maximas

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, a true challenge of their ability against spin and a real test to see if their attack can cut it in those conditions against a good team
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Hurricane said:
5 wicket bags and 4 wicket bags
southee 4,7
boult 3,3
wagner 1,4

All of them need more 5 wicket hauls.
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Love your work as always Cane, but disagree there. Higher percentage of five-wicket hauls= reliance on one bowler. If our guys are getting 3s, like they did in the second dig, with the guy who didn't get 3 taking 4 in the first dig, that's absolutely ideal.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
SteveNZ said:
Love your work as always Cane, but disagree there. Higher percentage of five-wicket hauls= reliance on one bowler. If our guys are getting 3s, like they did in the second dig, with the guy who didn't get 3 taking 4 in the first dig, that's absolutely ideal.
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I agree.
It prevents the bowlers from being recognised in the way that other bowlers around the world are; which is actually not a bad thing. Southee's record over the last 2 years is as good as Steyn and Harris'.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Meanwhile, when the Player Ratings are updated, I suspect Southee will be ranked 5 and Boult 7. Not bad at all.
 
jcas0167

jcas0167

International Debutant
_Ed_ said:
That's a fair point, although there is one that comes to mind straight away for me, from the Dunedin test against England. Cricinfo commentary:


10.3 Wagner to Pietersen, OUT, full and straight, swinging in and plumb lbw! Pietersen gets a first-baller. What a delivery from Wager. Pietersen was so late on that, late inswing, Pietersen couldn't get the bat across in time and is trapped bang in front of all three

But apart from that, I think you're right. This could be the exception that proves the rule.
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Another one that comes to mind - 2nd innings, first test against India at Eden Park:

74.1 Wagner to Dhawan, OUT, Wagner has produced this wicket out of nowhere. What a luxury to have such a player on call. What heart, what spirit shown by Wagner. Goes round the wicket, produces a bouncer that is too difficult for Dhawan to leave. It is going across him, but has started just outside leg, and there is no room. As he weaves away, he fails to get his glove out of the harm's way. It kisses the glove. Wagner, what a beaut

S Dhawan c †Watling b Wagner 115 (322m 211b 12x4 1x6) SR: 54.50
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Blocky

Blocky

Banned
hendrix said:
I agree that Wagner's wickets were match-changing. But you don't need to be Neil Wagner to take match-changing wickets.

Other bowlers do it. Some do it as regularly if not more regularly than he does.
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Southee, yes.
Boult, no.

The more Wagner plays, the better he gets at this level, the more he believes in himself. He has natural variations due to some of the quirks of his action people are deriding him for that make him a lot harder to deal with than he's given credit for. He's also shown recently he can work to a plan which alongside Southee gives us threatening options in the middle overs of a game.

He's come off two seasons where he's improved his consistency and control, taken a tonne of wickets at a good rate and been as much a part of the success of NZ in the last two years as anyone else not named Southee. And I think after his performance in the Windies here, he's really written his ticket to be included in all conditions unless his form drops away.

The comparison of Southee vs Wagner is a ridiculous one due to how great Southee has been. But postulating that Boult has been an amazing performer above and beyond Wagner just is not true by any metric or stretch of the imagination. Wagner has been every bit the performer in the last two years as Boult has been - that's part of the reason we're starting to win consistently and win series.
 
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