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***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014
- Thread starter Hurricane
- Start date
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Fair enough.
Just trying to provide the counter-argument tomorrow.
I agree with Bahnz' assessment. Basically, while they should improve, so should we.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Craig reminds me alot of Swann in his action. Very bustly and a strong pivot. [/prematurecomparison]
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Wow, some of those catches by Watling were sensational! Especially the catch off Roach down the leg-side - as a (very) former wicket-keeper I can attest to how hard it is to complete a catch standing up to the wicket when your view is temporarily blocked by the batsman
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Two very different bowlers. At his peak Swann was deadly with the one that came on with the arm to left-handers, and left them in two minds whether that or the off-break was coming down.
Pidg is going to get RHers caught off gloves/splices, maybe the odd thru the gate but not as much as a flatter bowler in Swann, and nicks/even the odd stumping to LHs. I dunno if he was doing it in this Test but he can really drift it on his day.
He might have his detractors but Dipak Patel made Mark Craig a Test-class off-spinner out of not a hell of a lot - no word of a lie he was 4th string off-spinner at Howick Pak (all coached by Dip).
ohnoitsyou
International Regular
So after Hobart, Colombo, England, WI and India at home and now this, whereabouts does this team rank in the pantheon of great NZ sides? Memories are fuzzy, but i would probably rate them similar to the Fleming side already.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Not yet, this team has yet to achieve a positive result against the stronger sides away from home. Fleming's team beat (an admittedly weak) England and (fortuitously) drew a series in Australia. This current team needs to do something comparable before they can be considered in same class as Fleming's side.
ohnoitsyou
International Regular
We drew a series in Australia and would rate the India series as a better victory than the England series. Doesn't compare in ODI's though.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Only if Johnson reverts to his old self, and even then given the depth in fast bowling talent that Australia has I'd back them to win any series fairly comfortably.
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kyear2
International Coach
Great job by N.Z. Thoroughly deserved to win the match.
I don't know where to begin. Powell has talent, but is not scoring and is a walking wicket at this point, Kraigg has to open the innings in the next match. Edwards didn't score many runs and had some soft dismissals, but didn't look out of sorts while he was batting and I would give him until the end of the series. Bravo has too much talent to give up so quickly and deserves a run into the next test series, I believe his form will eventually return. Samuels has to go to be replaced by any of Blackwood, Carter or Dwayne if he is fit. Ramdin was ok with the bat, but his keeping was sloppy, though he wasn't helped by some inconsistent spin bowling. Taylor was impressive, Roach will improve and Holder or Cummins deserves a run for the remainder of the series, preferably Holder at this point. Narine will be an improvement, but I am still not convinced he is that great or effective in the Test format, so we will see, I definitely don't see him to be the savior WW seems to believe he will be, in the interim either Benn or Shillingford, preferably Benn will have to suffice.
Shiv was Shiv and he has placed himself firmly in that second tier of W.I batting greats and when he finally leaves he will be missed, because at this point there is no Lara or Richards in waiting and even though the fast bowling future shows promise, nothing is assured. If we though are going to continue to loose, we might as well do so with youngsters and stop recycling the Samuels of the world. In a team this bad, no one should be safe and that has been our problem for too many years.
Lets Go Windies, it can only get better from here and Congratulations again to N.Z.
I don't know where to begin. Powell has talent, but is not scoring and is a walking wicket at this point, Kraigg has to open the innings in the next match. Edwards didn't score many runs and had some soft dismissals, but didn't look out of sorts while he was batting and I would give him until the end of the series. Bravo has too much talent to give up so quickly and deserves a run into the next test series, I believe his form will eventually return. Samuels has to go to be replaced by any of Blackwood, Carter or Dwayne if he is fit. Ramdin was ok with the bat, but his keeping was sloppy, though he wasn't helped by some inconsistent spin bowling. Taylor was impressive, Roach will improve and Holder or Cummins deserves a run for the remainder of the series, preferably Holder at this point. Narine will be an improvement, but I am still not convinced he is that great or effective in the Test format, so we will see, I definitely don't see him to be the savior WW seems to believe he will be, in the interim either Benn or Shillingford, preferably Benn will have to suffice.
Shiv was Shiv and he has placed himself firmly in that second tier of W.I batting greats and when he finally leaves he will be missed, because at this point there is no Lara or Richards in waiting and even though the fast bowling future shows promise, nothing is assured. If we though are going to continue to loose, we might as well do so with youngsters and stop recycling the Samuels of the world. In a team this bad, no one should be safe and that has been our problem for too many years.
Lets Go Windies, it can only get better from here and Congratulations again to N.Z.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Nah, definitely rate the win in England more highly. England had won a series 2-1 with South Africa the previous summer and were not the pushovers that they're widely remembered as. That victory was the high-tide of the Fleming era imo, I honestly rate it above the drawn series in Oz.
The Australian team that New Zealand drew with in 2001 was enormously superior to the one we played in 2011, and the 0-0 result stands as a vastly superior achievement (even if it was heavily rain assisted). I can't imagine too many other teams managed to draw a series with the aussies during their 1995-2007 prime.
It's also worth remembering that under Fleming we drew a test series in India, drew a series with a strong Pakistan side and also drew at home with South Africa. The current bunch still have a fair way to go yet, though I'm reasonably confident that they'll get there.
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wellAlbidarned
International Coach
The team we drew with was nowhere near the ATG side Flem was up against.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I forgot about Dwayne Bravo.
I'd just chuck him in there ahead of Samuels. He can't do worse with the bat, and his bowling, fielding and general attitude should provide a lift to the Windies.
Kraigg for Powell being the other change. Could go Holder for Shillingford, but with Dwayne's bowling and a bit of improvement from Roach and Taylor I think that covers the pace bowling, and Shillingford did actually take wickets.
I'd just chuck him in there ahead of Samuels. He can't do worse with the bat, and his bowling, fielding and general attitude should provide a lift to the Windies.
Kraigg for Powell being the other change. Could go Holder for Shillingford, but with Dwayne's bowling and a bit of improvement from Roach and Taylor I think that covers the pace bowling, and Shillingford did actually take wickets.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
Jeez Heef, it's spelt SOL. You know this!
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Days of Grace
International Captain
They may not have the ultimate series results yet, but on paper, this team is probably the best New Zealand has ever put on the park.
YorksLanka
International Debutant
very impressed by the NZ seam bowling in this match, Southee bowled some absolute pearlers..Well done to NZ on a deserved victory
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I dunno
2nd Test: Zimbabwe v New Zealand at Bulawayo, Aug 15-17, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
I mean, the Marshall's are obviously dirt but then the current side has Fulton and Sodhi (though he did pick up important wickets; H Marshall's Test average is 38...)
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I'm sure PEWS would prefer this team: 2nd Test: New Zealand v Sri Lanka at Wellington, Dec 15-18, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo