Can Sunil Narine become an all time great?

[WindieWeathers]

1. He's dominated the IPL for about three years in a row now

2. At international level hes been ranked number one in both t20s and ODI's and has very good averages

3. He's also adapted his game to foreign conditions having taken wickets in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand

4. In t20s he's one 4fer away from matching Umar Gul and Malinga for getting the most 4fers in the t20 format


I know the elephant in the room would be his test exploits which are 21 wickets at a 40 average right now but when you consider he's just 25 and has only played six test matches, one of which was washed out (his debut in England) then hasn't he got every chance of bringing down that average significantly over the next few years as he continues to get better? Another string to his bow is despite being on the scene for a while now and people calling him a "mystery spinner" world class batsmen like Kohli, De Villiars etc haven't been able to read him.

I believe he can be another Ajmal in the test format...and if that turns out to be true then he just might be able to cling onto Murali and Warne's coattails one day..it will be a big task, but he has the talent to put his name alongside those two as a spinner who made a massive impact in his generation imo.

 

[viriya]

From what I understand he's very tough to hit for runs, but if you're looking to survive you won't have as many problems. That would explain why he has done well in T20s and ODIs but not Tests. I must admit though I was surprised that a bowler that can spin it both ways is not more effective in Tests.. maybe it's partly to do with a lack of patience?

As it is, WI don't even pick him as the #1 spinner for Tests, so either he's told them he prefers shorter forms or WI are done with giving him chances.. I do think he deserves more chances.

 

[WindieWeathers]

From what I understand he's very tough to hit for runs, but if you're looking to survive you won't have as many problems. That would explain why he has done well in T20s and ODIs but not Tests. I must admit though I thought I was surprised that a bowler that can spin it both ways is not more effective in Tests.. maybe it's partly to do with a lack of patience?

As it is, WI don't even pick him as the #1 spinner for Tests, so either he's told them he prefers shorter forms or WI are done with giving him chances.. I do think he deserves more chances.

He is the number one now after Shillingford got called...and in his last test vs NZ he got 6/91 so i'm inclined to believe he has improved in the longer form of the game.

 

[viriya]

He is the number one now after Shillingford got called...and in his last test vs NZ he got 6/91 so i'm inclined to believe he has improved in the longer form of the game.

I'd like to see him come good in Tests, crucial for WI to have attacking bowling options in Tests..

 

[91Jmay]

Needs to do a lot more in the most important format for that conversation to start. Great T20 bowler, but poles at 40 won't do I'm afraid.

 

[Zinzan]

He is the number one now after Shillingford got called...and in his last test vs NZ he got 6/91 so i'm inclined to believe he has improved in the longer form of the game.

I wouldn't read much into his 6-fer against NZ tbh. NZ are notorious for making the most ordinary of spinners look world class (Not saying Narine specifically is ordinary, but you catch my drift). Furthermore, I notice he got 0-39 in the 4th innings of that match you refer to as NZ chased down a relatively small total for victory.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I would say no unless you count hit and giggle and odi's above test matches.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I wouldn't read much into his 6-fer against NZ tbh. NZ are notorious for making the most ordinary of spinners look world class (Not saying Narine specifically is ordinary, but you catch my drift). Furthermore, I notice he got 0-39 in the 4th innings of that match you refer to as NZ chased down a relatively small total for victory.

Well how many spinners are performing away from home these days? the likes of Ashwin can hardly buy a wicket away from his indian tracks so if Narine is taking 6fers against a side who did just beat India then i think that's a good sign. Now it's a matter of seeing how he does from here...lets remember Warne's first ten tests weren't that good and the likes of Ajmal made his test debut aged 30.

 

[Slifer]

If Narine can somehow play 50 odd tests, average around 4 to 4.5 wkts per match, have a sub 30 average and SR of around 70 or so then he'd be up there for sure imo.

 

[Prince EWS]

One thing, WW - comparing Narine's potential achievements to Ajmal doesn't really help your argument because Ajmal's a fair way short of being an all-time great himself.

Narine's only 26 so it's still possible, yeah. What I will say is that I find the idea highly unlikely. I think pondering over whether he can have a better Test career than Ajmal is a more interesting question than the one you posed in the OP.

 

[viriya]

I think he has the potential to match someone like Harbhajan in Tests (before he destroyed his record near the end of his career by bowling garbage), Murali and Warne are unlikely because part of their success was due to how much they could spin the ball.. Narine has the variations but not the big spin - so he won't get to that level.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

He's going to be like most decent international spinners - good against most teams and ATG against NZ. Probably not a world ATG but could definitely become WI's best ever spinner.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, agree with a few others. In order to be a genuine ATG spinner, you really need to be able to generate huge ripping turn - and while Narine gets some decent revs he's not in the Warne/Murali zone. Could definitely see him reaching Swann/Herath status - though we probably won't know for certain until he gets some matches against someone besides New Zealand.

Though, with his accuracy and variations, he's already well on his way to being an ATG in LO cricket

 

[the big bambino]

Since Ramadhin, Valentine and Gibbs are ahead of him I'd say he's a fair distance from even being the WI best ever spinner.

 

[morgieb]

Not in a real format. /snob

 

[WindieWeathers]

One thing, WW - comparing Narine's potential achievements to Ajmal doesn't really help your argument because Ajmal's a fair way short of being an all-time great himself.

Narine's only 26 so it's still possible, yeah. What I will say is that I find the idea highly unlikely. I think pondering over whether he can have a better Test career than Ajmal is a more interesting question than the one you posed in the OP.

Prince my argument is if Ajmal was 25 right now like Narine wouldn't he be on his way to being an all-time great? For me he would...having a spinner in the current climate take over 700 wickets will be very tough because less matches are played but if Narine can get over 400 with a good average then i think he could put his name up there.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yeah, agree with a few others. In order to be a genuine ATG spinner, you really need to be able to generate huge ripping turn - and while Narine gets some decent revs he's not in the Warne/Murali zone. Could definitely see him reaching Swann/Herath status - though we probably won't know for certain until he gets some matches against someone besides New Zealand.

Though, with his accuracy and variations, he's already well on his way to being an ATG in LO cricket

Not sure i agree here Bahnz..Murali had "huge rip" and yet his record in Australia left a lot to be desired...same with Warne in India, but if you're a spinner who's main strength is being able to outfox a batsman with a box of tricks then in essence it really doesn't matter what track you're on...you're always gonna be in the game.

Recently in tests Narine has been ripping the off-break a lot more imo...so he does have it in him...the exciting part will be how he does when he plays consistent test matches...this year we're playing NZ, Bang, India and SA...so it's a big year for him.

 

[Flem274*]

He got huge turn last summer down here but I think he needs to vary his lines, lengths and flights a bit more. Tends to just put it down the other end in the same spot and rely on the opposition not picking the one that goes the other way.

Once the "unreadable" tag is getting bandied around the opposition dressing room he's in business since their batsmen will be more tentative, but you do have the comfort of knowing where the ball is going to land every time and good players of spin like Williamson and Taylor were able to score runs despite struggling to pick him.

If he can start mixing things up he might be a nightmare.

 

[hendrix]

Prince my argument is if Ajmal was 25 right now like Narine wouldn't he be on his way to being an all-time great? For me he would...having a spinner in the current climate take over 700 wickets will be very tough because less matches are played but if Narine can get over 400 with a good average then i think he could put his name up there.

Yeah but Ajmal has been destroying test teams for the last few years. Narine's only done it to NZ. Plenty of average-to-good spin bowlers have managed that

 

[kiwiviktor81]

He's a lot like Daniel Vettori, who has myriads of subtle variations that are easy to hit but not out of the middle of the bat.