The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[sledger]

I think Steve Waugh is really nice.

 

[the big bambino]

If he wasn't so limited he'd be adorable.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, I mean he couldn't bowl left-arm wrist spin while standing on his head. How limited of him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He was easier to tie down.

He did not pull balls more than waist high.

he didnt play the ball late either

Come on, admit it, you like him too

 

[the big bambino]

You aren't actually meant to pull balls much higher than your waist anyway. Waugh's way of dealing with the short ball was ugly and looked bad but was successful. He suckered an entire generation of quickies to bowl at his body when bowling a length around off was the ball which really worried him. He couldn't play that standing on his head either.

 

[harsh.ag]

Today's XI

Barry Richards
Viv Richards
Don Bradman
Graeme Pollock
Brian Lara
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist (w)
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Curtly Ambrose

 

[Red]

Did you see his first series in India ?



Limited in his repertoire of shots and thus, easier to tie down.

Nup

He wasn't easy to tie down at all imo, and his SR is pretty similar to most middle order bats of his era

 

[Burgey]

The only shot in the book that Steve Waugh stopped playing was the hook-shot. Apart from that, I think he used the full repertiore. Obviously, shots like the late cut don't count because it's not really part of modern cricket anyway.

But now that I think of it, didn't Steve Waugh invent a shot, or at least make it trendy? The so-called 'Slog Sweep'.

The late cut has been a part of the game again since blokes started gliding the ball to Third Man off the back foot, Steve Waugh included.

 

[Burgey]

Who the **** is saying Steve Waugh didn't play the ball late? I think you've confused him with Steve Harmison.

 

[the big bambino]

Careful. The guy who reckons that has played on uncovered wickets in Canada don't you know.

 

[fredfertang]

Steve Waugh should have played the ball a lot later, especially in '89 - might have got out a bit more often

 

[Red]

Steve Waugh should have played the ball a lot later, especially in '89 - might have got out a bit more often

Waugh's "limitations" were clear in '89...

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

If Steve Waugh's shot selection hadn't been so limited, maybe we'd be hearing Danny Morrison describe the latest Wascoop these days, eh.

 

[Burgey]

Whenever I played against Stephen, it was a feature of his game to play the ball late. To suggest otherwise is absurdist nonsense.

 

[Muloghonto]

Come on, admit it, you like him too

Whats there not to like ? An ordinary Joe who can become amongst the best in the world due to sheer application, intelligence and determination is a likeable and relatable figure for people like us, who are not blessed with exceptional talent.

 

[Muloghonto]

Omg are you actually implying that I am making Hutton's point and Amre is making yours? Until now I thought you obtuse. Now I'll have to add dishonest.

If you are not trying to make Hutton's point, then whats the point of saying Hutton knows more than me, when you are comparing your ancedote about Hutton to mine about Amre ?

 

[Muloghonto]

Nup

He wasn't easy to tie down at all imo, and his SR is pretty similar to most middle order bats of his era

Well, I did. He was competing with Navjot Sidhu in that series for who could be a better 'strokeless wonder'.

And no, he was easy to tie down. Easier than plenty of batsmen who played in that era. I can think of atleast a dozen batsmen without even trying who were far harder to contain than Tugga.

 

[Red]

And no, he was easy to tie down. Easier than plenty of batsmen who played in that era. I can think of atleast a dozen batsmen without even trying who were far harder to contain than Tugga.

You could name twelve, and I could disagree on seven or eight or nine, but I don't know that it'll achieve much.

So we might as well, seeing as this is a forum...

 

[watson]

Well, I did. He was competing with Navjot Sidhu in that series for who could be a better 'strokeless wonder'.

And no, he was easy to tie down. Easier than plenty of batsmen who played in that era. I can think of atleast a dozen batsmen without even trying who were far harder to contain than Tugga.

VVS Laxman was one of the more fluid Indian batsman who most would perceive as being 'hard to contain'. Yet funnily enough there is little discernable difference in their respective SRs.

Runs per 100 Balls
Steve Waugh = 48.64
VVS Laxman = 49.37

So I would agree, in his era there would have to be more adventureous batsman who were harder to contain than Steve Waugh (Brian Lara springs to mind), but since Steve Waugh's SR is healthy enough, I don't see why anyone would want to single him out as an exception unless they have some kind of irrational grievance.

 

[Muloghonto]

VVS Laxman was one of the more fluid Indian batsman who most would perceive as being 'hard to contain'. Yet funnily enough there is little discernable difference in their respective SRs.

Runs per 100 Balls
Steve Waugh = 48.64
VVS Laxman = 49.37

So I would agree, in his era there would have to be more adventureous batsman who were harder to contain than Steve Waugh (Brian Lara springs to mind), but since Steve Waugh's SR is healthy enough, I don't see why anyone would want to single him out as an exception unless they have some kind of irrational grievance.

Statistics pertaining to test cricket are not,unfortunately, good enough to convey who is/was hard to contain. Waugh was easy to contain if you didnt attack the stumps or bowl half volleys. That isnt always the objective in test cricket, so talking about tests is largely irrelevant here.
Strike rates also do not potray the nature of one's innings, whether it is permanent pottering around like Steve Waugh or someone who starts very slowly & watchfully and then, with his eye in, becomes a very fluent batsman who cannot be contained ( Laxman).

Nobody is singling out Waugh as an exception. By and large, batsmen who are fluent and score heavily are extremely rare. There were plenty of batsmen who scored more fluently than Waugh but not many who scored as heavily as Waugh.