Third Name Listed for ATG XI

[kyear2]

In another thread it was discussed whether any other player or players deserved or could be seen as automatic picks along with Bradman and Sobers for an ATG Team. My views are well known and I believe that Marshall and Hobbs both have the credentials and the necessary consensus opinion (both here on CW and among professionals) to be included in that company.

So let me know, whose name do you write down after Bradman and Sobers for your team and does any other player(s) based on statistical and anecdotal evidence and general opinion (not just your own) deserve to be seen as automatic picks to an AT XI.

The poll will include those five (6) players who along with the aforementioned are most often included in ATG teams and I will also include Imran as even though his name is (compared to the others listed) seldom featured in such ensembles he is highly rated by CW members.

Finally, apologies to the ATG discussion haters, but no one is forcing you to read the thread.

 

[kyear2]

I have decided to allow for multiple choices to allow for up to but not exceeding two (2) selections if one is so inclined.

 

[the big bambino]

Michael Beer and Callum Ferguson. No ****. You heard it here first.

 

[ankitj]

I have decided to allow for multiple choices to allow for up to but not exceeding two (2) selections if one is so inclined.

My third pick generally is Imran and fourth Murali, who is regrettably missing form the poll.

 

[salman85]

I reckon the order in which players get picked for an ATG side has got more to do with the competition they face for that very spot more than anything else.Imran would probably slot in for me as the 3rd pick and there's probably a hint of bias in that TBH,but i think when selecting an ATG side,Gilchrist should be the 2nd pick after Bradman.Not because Sobers or Imran, are a host of other ATGs are lessers players.Most of them are greater players than Gilchrist,but the fact that Gilchrist was so ridiculously good with the bat compared to other wicketkeepers with the same wicketkeeping ability, that he is a sureshot to be in the side alongside Bradman.

Sobers would make 99% of all ATG teams.Imran would make 80% of all ATG teams.But you could slot in some other players in their place,and the team would not be significantly weaker.However,if you replace Gilchrist with any other keeper,the team does become significantly weaker because it's devoid of a specialist batsman alongwith a top drawer keeper.

 

[OverratedSanity]

^^^ Very well said indeed. I disagree though how you said Imran and a load of others are greater than Gilchrist. It's not really set in stone. What Gilchrist brought as a package rivals any other great All-rounder imo

In an ATG XI, I'd pick in the following order: Bradman, Gilchrist, Sobers, Hobbs

 

[steds]

Controversial as this sounds, Hobbs would probably be my first name down. Then Bradman & Sobers. After that it's basically a toss up between five of the other 6 shoe ins for my side. Went for Warne in the poll ahead of Marshall, Tendulkar, Gilchrist and Imran, just because I felt like it

 

[ankitj]

^^^Dare one replace Hobbs by Tendulkar in that post and repost.

 

[OverratedSanity]

^^^Dare one replace Hobbs by Tendulkar in that post and repost.

Stupid fanatical deluded Sachin fanboy

 

[ohnoitsyou]

What is the point of this? There are players who automatically make your team (for me Bradman, Sobers, Richards, Marshall and Hobbs) and others who have to content for spots.You cant really list the order you put them down, at least for the first lot

 

[kyear2]

What is the point of this? There are players who automatically make your team (for me Bradman, Sobers, Richards, Marshall and Hobbs) and others who have to content for spots.You cant really list the order you put them down, at least for the first lot

Woul agree to a certain point that for me there are also automatic picks in Bradman, Sobers, Marshall, Hobbs, Gilchrist and Richards. Next comes Warne and Tendulkar (though arguments can be made against) and the other three are up for grabs and subject to change.

 

[smash84]

My analysis is much simpler. In Imran you get a bowler who is in the same ball park as Marshall and a much better bat. A real fighter with great leadership qualities and that never say die attitude. I find it difficult to find others who bring so much to the side. So Imran it is for me.

 

[Slifer]

I reckon the order in which players get picked for an ATG side has got more to do with the competition they face for that very spot more than anything else.Imran would probably slot in for me as the 3rd pick and there's probably a hint of bias in that TBH,but i think when selecting an ATG side,Gilchrist should be the 2nd pick after Bradman.Not because Sobers or Imran, are a host of other ATGs are lessers players.Most of them are greater players than Gilchrist,but the fact that Gilchrist was so ridiculously good with the bat compared to other wicketkeepers with the same wicketkeeping ability, that he is a sureshot to be in the side alongside Bradman.

Sobers would make 99% of all ATG teams.Imran would make 80% of all ATG teams.But you could slot in some other players in their place,and the team would not be significantly weaker.However,if you replace Gilchrist with any other keeper,the team does become significantly weaker because it's devoid of a specialist batsman alongwith a top drawer keeper.

I respectfully disagree. The only player whose absence would significantly be missed is Bradman. Gilchrist as revolutionary as he is faces reasonable competition from the likes of Flower, Ames etc. Not that either one was better than Gilchrist but the gap isn't that great (ala Bradman)

 

[kyear2]

My analysis is much simpler. In Imran you get a bowler who is in the same ball park as Marshall and a much better bat. A real fighter with great leadership qualities and that never say die attitude. I find it difficult to find others who bring so much to the side. So Imran it is for me.

But once gain, not that I don't believe he should be included in an ATG side, but then why is he included in so few and even Wasim seems to be rated higher as a bowler and is selected to such teams by more persons.

Personally my team right now is Hobbs, Richards, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Marshall, Warne, Barnes.

The reason I don't make Gilchrist my third pick is because even though he was a much better batsman than Knott, Knott was the better keeper and some people believe that with a lineup this strong that the better pure keeper should be included and because of that philosophical difference for me he can't then be seen as an my nxt choice after Sobers and definitely not an automatic choice but definitely a consensus one.

 

[smash84]

But once gain, not that I don't believe he should be included in an ATG side, but then why is he included in so few and even Wasim seems to be rated higher as a bowler and is selected to such teams by more persons.

.

I think it has to do with Imran's legacy. He lead Pakistan for a 10 year period which is unheard of in Pakistan add to that the fact that captaining Pak is seen as one of the toughest jobs in world cricket and you see Imran being remembered more as a captain. Secondly in the last 2 - 3 years of his career he was playing pretty much as a pure batsman in the side which also makes it easy to forget just how ridiculously good he was as a bowler. These factors do play a huge part in relegating his bowling to the back burner (which actually is his strongest suit). I also think that Wasim gets extra points for being arguably the greatest ODI bowler (which shouldn't be the case in him being evaluated as a test bowler but a lot of people lose the distinction). Even Ian Chappell commenting on Wasim's inclusion in the cricinfo ATXI when asked about Wasim pointed to Wasim's deliveries to Allan Lamb and Chris Lewis in the 1992 world cup final. Additionally Wasim could probably bowl magical deliveries like no other. I wouldn't be surprised if Wasim was the most watched bowler on youtube because of some of the most ridiculously outstanding deliveries bowled by any bowler. Perhaps the fact that Wasim was so skillful with the ball hides the fact that for all the ***y swing he didn't really get wickets a lot of times. In fact Wasim might be the bowler about whom you would see most often "Oh now how did that miss the stumps, and the keeper" and stuff like that.

These are the main reasons I feel that lead people to choose Wasim a lot of times in an ATXI and to forgo Imran.

 

[kyear2]

OK, fair enough. I personally just think it's a matter that people simply don't see him as one of the best three fast bowlers of all time and so depending on priority he doesn't get included.

Regarding Akram, I believe that it's a combination of his ODI status as well as the fact that he brings LH variety and also as an old ball bowler he is ideal because of his reverse swing.

 

[Flametree]

Bradman of course.

1. Hobbs
2. Hutton
3. Bradman
4. Richards.... etc

 

[OverratedSanity]

[/B]

I respectfully disagree. The only player whose absence would significantly be missed is Bradman. Gilchrist as revolutionary as he is faces reasonable competition from the likes of Flower, Ames etc. Not that either one was better than Gilchrist but the gap isn't that great (ala Bradman)

Honestly, apart from Bradman, I can't think of any cricketer I consider as far ahead of competitors in his discipline as Gilchrist.

He isn't as far ahead of other keeper's as bradman is ahead of other batsmen, but I do think the difference is greater than between say Marshall and the others. That's why I voted for him

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Stupid fanatical deluded Sachin fanboy

Stupid fanatical deluded Gilchrist fanboy

 

[Eds]

Imran third. However I've gone for Gilchrist over Marshall despite my love for the latter as the side would suffer far more from Knott, Ames or Walcott coming in than it would for Barnes, McGrath or whichever other quick you decide to leave out your XI.