**Official** New Zealand Domestic Season 2013/2014

[Kippax]

Taylor looked terrible. The dismissal quality for the Stags isn't good, it isn't good at all.

Nice wrong 'un from Sodhi through Milne's gate tbf.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

haha yeah, two slashes back onto the stumps off Mitchell. That Cachopa dismissal in the first innings was pretty close to perfect though, pitched on leg, and would have missed off stump.

 

[vandem]

NZ cricket website (blackcaps.co.nz) appears to have had a redesign, and top banner with links to live scorecards is gone.

If you need them:
169/8 | NORTHERN KNIGHTS vs CENTRAL STAGS
56/1 | NEW ZEALAND XI vs WEST INDIES

I've tried clicking on various pull-downs, can manage to get scorecards of completed games, and fixtures for matches to come, but can't find link to scorecards for current domestic games. Let us know if anyone can find them.

 

[Blakey]

@vandem - just above the fold there is a white bar with horizontal navigation. Scroll to the right and you'll see past, current and future games.

 

[vandem]

@vandem - just above the fold there is a white bar with horizontal navigation. Scroll to the right and you'll see past, current and future games.

Thanks, got it, needed to start at the "www.blackcaps.co.nz" page. I used to go directly to the "www.blackcaps.co.nz/domestic/" page, and from there you don't get any links to scoreboards any more.

 

[straw man]

Upgraded website looks good imo

 

[ohnoitsyou]

website looks good, is ****. Wtf do i have to flick the scroll wheel 8 times instead of once to access all of the content. Maybe i can scroll out. Oh **** that just makes all the text smaller. Awful design.

Edit: I worked it out, its designed for ****ing tablets

 

[straw man]

Edit: I worked it out, its designed for ****ing tablets

Haha yes, and phones too apparently.

Handy partnership by KVW and Wheeler this morning to delay the inevitable for CD.

 

[Bahnz]

Wow, even by PS standards this is a pretty epic tail wag. Especially given the quality of bowling that it's coming against.

And it's over at last.

 

[CharlesLara]

Another 70 odd from a tailender, seriously!? I know it prob won't apply to this game as it seems as thought it may have been a greentop, buy was at the Aces vs Wizards game a few weeks back and the vibe that FC matches give off here is definitely thats its made for batsman. We saw what happened, albeit with basically a NZ attack, when there was assistance to the bowlers in the ND vs CD game,s the batsman seem to have no answer, and then we wonder why when the step up is made to Test, any mild examination leaves guys wanting. Making flat track bullies just makes no sense, and provides no real test or upskilling in terms of what a batsman is able to cope with.

Ah oh well.

 

[Immenso]

Another 70 odd from a tailender, seriously!? I know it prob won't apply to this game as it seems as thought it may have been a greentop, buy was at the Aces vs Wizards game a few weeks back and the vibe that FC matches give off here is definitely thats its made for batsman. We saw what happened, albeit with basically a NZ attack, when there was assistance to the bowlers in the ND vs CD game,s the batsman seem to have no answer, and then we wonder why when the step up is made to Test, any mild examination leaves guys wanting. Making flat track bullies just makes no sense, and provides no real test or upskilling in terms of what a batsman is able to cope with.

Ah oh well.

It’s a bit chicken and egg though .....



I’ve said on this forum a few times, that I’m in favour of the pitch WOF system that NZC have had in place the last few (up to 10 now?) years.



What’s the point of producing flat-track bullies? But by the same token, whats the point of producing bowlers who are green-seamer bullies?



Test cricket is played on flat pitches, until that changes – then NZ domestic cricket should try to replicate that as much as possible within its constraints of climate, scheduling, geography etc



While it is demoralising for the bowlers, it is at least lessened by the fact that FC cricket can often be declaration cricket, without anyone getting too bothered by that. And this is coming from a fan who is a fan of bowling, hates batsmen with a passion, and would like fairer surfaces in Test Cricket.



But my theory of chicken and egg, is that it starts with the bowling and the pitches. Flat pitches means that the provinces require ‘seam bowlers’ who are and/or fast, tall, can swing, can reverse-swing, and spin bowlers who can extract either spin or bounce from a flat pitch, or remove batsmen with deception.



I reckon we are starting to produce these types of bowlers.

The young quicks coming through seem to have a few strings to their bow (e.g. Milne, Wheeler, Bracewell, Small, Henry, Duffy, Bartlett ...) plus those a few years further down the process (Southee, Boult, McClenaghan, Bennett)



Of the spinners, in the last year 3 of the 6 provinces have a wrist spinner as their main spinner (Sodhi, Astle, Nethula), plus Schmulian is fringe for Auckland.



While it’s hard to compare across eras with a lack of video coverage of domestic seamers up until 2 seasons ago, I can state categorically that only in my time following NZ domestic cricket (about 25 years) I can count the number of wrist spinners on one hand (Loveridge, Walker, Goodson, Neuze, T Anderson) – and only Walker was ever a domestic regular beyond a single season.



This theory that I am spouting however, is a bit based on the assumption that the only alternative to a NZ domestic flat pitch, is the type of pitch that proceeded this era of advanced turf science. The traditional NZ underprepared green pitch which offered sideways movement and variable bounce – which produced front foot shuffling batsmen, and put-it-on-a-spot medium pacers. This off course probably doesn’t need to be the case anymore – and like Shane Bond suggested recently - we could mix it up by offering some pitches that either started flat and deteriorated to offer spin, or started a bit green and flattened out to assist the batsmen.



My theory of supporting the flat pitch - also includes the thought that of say 10 rounds of Plunket Shield for each team on flat pitches, on average maybe 2 each will be played on a greenish pitch as a result of NZ’s climate restricting a groundsman’s preparation in the lead up to a match.

 

[Immenso]

Further to the trend of lower order batsmen cashing in during Plunket Shield, and my theory above that flat pitches = good.

I’d suggest this trend shows that NZ domestic bowlers have a weakness once the ball starts to age. Whether this is a weakness with the spinners, a weakness with reverse swing, or a lack of fitness/intensity ...... I don’t know. Maybe the knowledge of impending declarations reduces intensity ......

If concentrated on by the coaches, this weakness will surely produce in time; better reverse swing bowling by the frontline seamers, or we might start to see specialist reverse-swingers a-la a Craig White type player start to filter through at domestic level.

It is odd though, because what I have seen from Boult, Southee, Wagner, Bracewell at test level – I’m actually quite impressed with our reverse-swing bowling at the higher level.

 

[Immenso]

BTW, the trend of big lower order scores is statistically 'real'.

According to cricket archive, the highest FC score for each batting position in NZ FC history includes two scores from last season.

Colin Munro now has the record for a number 6 with his 269* v Wellington.

Gareth Andrew now has the record for a number 8 with his 180*

Albeit, both at the stupidly proportioned Outer Oval.

 

[Flem274*]

I don't think we need to focus on providing any type of pitch as such. A range would be good, but all in all just producing the fairest pitches possible would be fine. I think when the pitches flattened out half a decade ago the medium to medium fast bowlers were initially caught out, and while the very best ones like Arnel, Mason and Adams adapted and continued to succeed the rest fell by the wayside because if they weren't swinging the ball batsmen could just keep still and balanced as they hit through the line. Front foot and back foot campers were able to get by because the pitches weren't particularly fast or bouncy either, so they had time to adjust.

We're still going through the transition. While the lower middle order can still continue to get away with the bad habits of their predecessors, the top order batsmen are now the ones being caught on the hop because the bowlers have started using swing again, or pace and bounce in some cases (Bartlett, Duffy, McClenaghan and so on) though those guys were always around (Gillespie, O'Brien). The best line and length seamers are still able to do their thing (Arnel, Butler et al) because they're good bowlers, but the new pitches have definitely introduced more variety into the bowling stocks that was probably lacking in the first half of the 00s because the pitches necessitated picking bowlers who could seam the ball. The pitches are probably a bit quicker and bouncier than they were in the late 00s I guess, and they probably turn a bit more due to the late summer droughts that are getting worse and worse. But anyway, the top order batsmen who developed during the flat pitches and no deviation for all phase haven't adjusted to the new regime yet.

The big thing for me is looking at who is producing our best players, and despite having half the population our two big cities are failing. Auckland are producing a lot of solid FC players who get exported around the country, but Auckland and Wellington haven't really produced a Taylor, KW, Southee etc. They've had success with limited overs players (Guptill, Mills, McClenaghan, Elliott, Franklin) but no one who has been able to hold down a test spot. The North Island provinces have given us KW, Taylor, Ryder, Southee, Dougeh and Boult and the South Island Fulton, Rutherford and Anderson but the cities have given us less despite having more.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

And this is coming from a fan who is a fan of bowling, hates batsmen with a passion, and would like fairer surfaces in Test Cricket.

I like Immenso.

 

[Mike5181]

Auckland just needs to retain their young players. It's almost unforgivable that they have let guys like Neesham, Sodhi, Raval etc leave for various reasons.

 

[RxGM]

I don't think we need to focus on providing any type of pitch as such. A range would be good, but all in all just producing the fairest pitches possible would be fine. I think when the pitches flattened out half a decade ago the medium to medium fast bowlers were initially caught out, and while the very best ones like Arnel, Mason and Adams adapted and continued to succeed the rest fell by the wayside because if they weren't swinging the ball batsmen could just keep still and balanced as they hit through the line. Front foot and back foot campers were able to get by because the pitches weren't particularly fast or bouncy either, so they had time to adjust.

We're still going through the transition. While the lower middle order can still continue to get away with the bad habits of their predecessors, the top order batsmen are now the ones being caught on the hop because the bowlers have started using swing again, or pace and bounce in some cases (Bartlett, Duffy, McClenaghan and so on) though those guys were always around (Gillespie, O'Brien). The best line and length seamers are still able to do their thing (Arnel, Butler et al) because they're good bowlers, but the new pitches have definitely introduced more variety into the bowling stocks that was probably lacking in the first half of the 00s because the pitches necessitated picking bowlers who could seam the ball. The pitches are probably a bit quicker and bouncier than they were in the late 00s I guess, and they probably turn a bit more due to the late summer droughts that are getting worse and worse. But anyway, the top order batsmen who developed during the flat pitches and no deviation for all phase haven't adjusted to the new regime yet.

The big thing for me is looking at who is producing our best players, and despite having half the population our two big cities are failing. Auckland are producing a lot of solid FC players who get exported around the country, but Auckland and Wellington haven't really produced a Taylor, KW, Southee etc. They've had success with limited overs players (Guptill, Mills, McClenaghan, Elliott, Franklin) but no one who has been able to hold down a test spot. The North Island provinces have given us KW, Taylor, Ryder, Southee, Dougeh and Boult and the South Island Fulton, Rutherford and Anderson but the cities have given us less despite having more.

I think Auckland can semi-claim Southee he did move down to go to school down here to further his cricketing education.
Also Ish Sodhi is Auckland bred.

I think the issue is that both Wellington and Auckland's development processes are s***.
Auckland especially gets clogged up with older players who move to the big city later in there career, for family reasons, or cause they have made there name else where. Friday is the first import we have bought in to Auckland who is firstly young and who was not brought in to play LO like Martin or Hitchcock or who chose to move here as established internationals like Martin, Tuffey, Styris, or Aucklanders returning home like Raval, Mitch

 

[CharlesLara]

Auckland just needs to retain their young players. It's almost unforgivable that they have let guys like Neesham, Sodhi, Raval etc leave for various reasons.

This.

They doing a lot better now, but under Strang there was essentially a small generation of talented young cricketers denied an opportunity for whatever reason, hence why the likes of Jimmy, James Fuller, Jeet, all the Cachopas at one point, Ish etc had to leave because there simply wasn't a chance given. Granted that Auckland has a large population and its almost criminal to not have a North Harbour / Auckland situation, problems like this will exist, but for a guy like Andrew De Boorder, who from a technical standpoint is the best I have seen (bar the obvious KW) to be captaining the Aces to not wanting to play under Strang says something about the system at one point in time.

Although they seem to be doing a lot better with the new administration though, so we'll see.

 

[Flem274*]

I definitely agree two of Auckland's brightest being allowed to escape is poor form, but to be fair Neesham was third in line behind CdG and Munro, and both players were amongst Auckland's most valuable at the time.

They were fortunate to retrieve Raval from CD though and they practically swapped Sodhi for Bucko Martin, which was short sighted since having both on the roster would have been ideal for them. Carl Cachopa is also missed imo.

But even then a mixed origin/Player of National Interest side of Guptill, Raval, Cachopa, Cachopa, Kitchen, Neesham, de Boorder, Sodhi, Mills, Bartlett, McClenaghan would still be soundly beaten or pushed very hard by other sides in a similar vein, which for a city of 1.5 million is unacceptable.

 

[RxGM]

Auckland just needs to retain their young players. It's almost unforgivable that they have let guys like Neesham, Sodhi, Raval etc leave for various reasons.

If I was a young promising player the first thing I would do is leave Auckland.
An interesting case study of everything that is wrong is a look at the 2006 U19 Squad (Not one of our better squads but….)
Auckland had 6 players in that squad including the top run scorer A de Boorder, the most economical bowler Hira and the captain Ellison. All these players are 26 now so should be approachinig the peak of there powers instead.
De Boorder – Walked away from the game
Guptill – LO specialist, Poor FC record
Hira – LO specialist, limited oppourtunities for FC cricket in Auckland & Canterbury has only played 7 FC games
Ellison – Who?
Munro – Tagged a LO Specialist only recently got a crack at FC cricket
Bartlett – Has only played 10 FC games, been blocked from oppourtunities by older quicks.

EDIT: CharlesLara just saw your post agree with everything that you said