If you could make 1 change from the Wisden All time 11...

[fredfertang]

Procter for Wasim

 

[grecian]

Botham in for Sobers. I've long had a theory that though Bradman was the greatest ever Test batsman, Botham was the greatest Test cricketer. Remove the words 'Test', 'batsman' and 'cricketer' though and these words could well apply to Pele, Michael Schumacher or Ric Flair, so I might sneak them in. It means a lot to me.

I've long had a theory you talk complete bollox, it's nice to have that theory reaffirmed in such a resounding way

 

[GIMH]

Okay fine Freddie instead of Botham replacing Sobers.

There's something quite appropriate about Sobers making way for Freddie anyway

 

[Cabinet96]

 

[kyear2]

If it's just one, Lillee for Barnes.

Next in order of importance Hutton for Grace and Gilchrist for Knott.

Lillee and Gilchrist being omitted were the biggest shocks for me though.

 

[the big bambino]

Gayle, Cook, Amla, Kallis, Clarke, Sangakarra, De Villiers, Swann, Steyn, Harris, Anderson. So all XI really as every knows standards in the past were pathetic. If every other sport improves why not cricket? Will review my side in about 6 months time.

 

[grecian]

Gayle, Cook, Amla, Kallis, Clarke, Sangakarra, De Villiers, Swann, Steyn, Harris, Anderson. So all XI really as every knows standards in the past were pathetic. If every other sport improves why not cricket? Will review my side in about 6 months time.

haha, Gayle

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Okay fine Freddie instead of Botham replacing Sobers.

There's something quite appropriate about Sobers making way for Freddie anyway

I assume you're 'avin a laugh.

But forgetting the Allrounder element; how many better batsmen are there Sobers? One, probably. Ever

 

[GIMH]

I assume you're 'avin a laugh.

But forgetting the Allrounder element; how many better batsmen are there Sober? One, probably. Ever

Tbf it was only generally practice sessions that he turned up drunk for, and that whole pedalo thing so we don't really need the emphasis.

 

[BeeGee]

Wasim out, Hadlee in.

 

[watson]

Alan Knott is the best ATG keeper, and ATG teams must have the best keeper as a matter of principle. Knott stays.

 

[andyc]

Knott was clearly a far better keeper then Gilly. And in this team you wouldn't need 15 extra runs an innings for an inferior keeper.

This has been summarised better here by others, but in these hypothetical situations IMO you need to assume that this eleven is playing a 'All-Time Martian XI' which is equally strong, if not more so. You're coming up against an equally ATG bowling line-up, so you want your team to be as strong as possible. So having a keeper that gets you an extra 15 runs, or having one or two of your bowlers that can bat is still important. And while I obviously never saw Knott's glovework, Gilly was hardly a slouch. More than good enough for an all-time XI IMO.

 

[Jono]

Was expecting GIMH to come here and say "BARNES OUT"

 

[Spikey]

Tendulkar out for McGrath

 

[salman85]

Barnes for Mcgrath.

 

[watson]

This has been summarised better here by others, but in these hypothetical situations IMO you need to assume that this eleven is playing a 'All-Time Martian XI' which is equally strong, if not more so. You're coming up against an equally ATG bowling line-up, so you want your team to be as strong as possible. So having a keeper that gets you an extra 15 runs, or having one or two of your bowlers that can bat is still important. And while I obviously never saw Knott's glovework, Gilly was hardly a slouch. More than good enough for an all-time XI IMO.

Alan Knott batted against some of the best bowling attacks ever assembled and equipped himself very well. For example;

ENG V AUS 1974/75: Ave = 36, HS = 106*
ENG V AUS 1975: Ave = 37, HS = 69
ENG V WI 1976: Ave = 30, HS = 116

I am sceptical that Gilchrist could have done any better at the time.

In other words, Gilchrist was excellent at pulverising mediocre bowling attacks because his power and timing far exceeded Knott's. However, batting against quality attacks with ATG bowlers is a completely different art, and in that context I believe Gilchrist and Knott to be a lot closer than most people assume;

Against mediocre attacks: Gilchrist >> Knott
Against great bowling attacks: Knott = Gilchrist
Wicket-Keeping skill: Knott > Gilchrist

 

[The Battlers Prince]

This has been summarised better here by others, but in these hypothetical situations IMO you need to assume that this eleven is playing a 'All-Time Martian XI' which is equally strong, if not more so. You're coming up against an equally ATG bowling line-up, so you want your team to be as strong as possible. So having a keeper that gets you an extra 15 runs, or having one or two of your bowlers that can bat is still important. And while I obviously never saw Knott's glovework, Gilly was hardly a slouch. More than good enough for an all-time XI IMO.

Gilly wasn't a slouch compared to the current standard. It could and should be argued for some other glovemen above Knott. However if you want an actually good gloveman and good batsman, Knott's it.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

The Wisden side is strong allround the park and a couple choices that could be changed if you felt like it. They obviously went era based, I'd like to keep in that vein but close as I could go is replacing Grace for Trumper.

 

[watson]

The Wisden side is strong allround the park and a couple choices that could be changed if you felt like it. They obviously went era based, I'd like to keep in that vein but close as I could go is replacing Grace for Trumper.

That's fair enough, but by the 1920s WG Grace was still regarded as the greatest batsman of all time, not Trumper. For example;

This meeting with Dr Grace was a red-letter day for me. I never saw him when he was at his greatest, but I have no doubt whatever that he stands out by himself above all cricketers.

The wickets on which he played were not to be compared with those of the present day; yet he made hundred after hundred, often on pitches which we should call right down bad to-day.......

His appearance was most impressive - he was a huge man with a fine physique, and, of course, a striking head. I am always glad that I played against the Old Man. To every man and boy who plays or reads cricket to-day, there has never been any player quite the same as W.G.

JACK HOBBS (1924) - My Cricket Memories, page 36-37

 

[Spikey]

Semi-related to this whole concept: Someone pick a best xi from the beginning of Wisden to 1914