DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen - The Top 25

[centurymaker]

It basically all boils down to how he is making that avg adjustment for wins and losses- Is the run scoring adj relative to your team-mates or everyone in the match

things like that you know...

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

1st Test: Pakistan v New Zealand at Lahore, May 1-3, 2002 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 19.27

I love Cricinfo's description of how Inzy got out in this innings:

"157.5 tried another big shot, mistimed it, too high in the air, tuffey takes a well judged cat at deep mid-on 643/10"

Frankly, a horrible Test to have any memories of, so the image of Darryl Tuffey taking an award-winning pet show ***** at deep mid-on to dismiss Inzy is an image that I will prefer to retain in my memories.

 

[Days of Grace]

It basically all boils down to how he is making that avg adjustment for wins and losses- Is the run scoring adj relative to your team-mates or everyone in the match

things like that you know...

The runs scored in each innings are adjusted according to strength of opposition and the match conditions (i.e. what other batsmen from BOTH sides did in the match).

 

[honestbharani]

Lara will be around 12th IMO. He'll may lose out as a lot of his 100s and run scoring happened late on his career, from 2003 to 2006 which will probably get adjusted down due to it being a easy phase for batting. Moreover, like a few others his team didn't win much and he does have a rather high avg in draws.

Things in his advantage are RPI, SR in 50+ innings, and a couple of other stats like that

Career bit which includes "great innings" and all that sort of stuff will be pretty irrelevant given all the modern day ATGs will be around 150 points, if not 150. His peak is similar to others, but it doesnt stand out among the remaining players, so not much there either.

So overall I think he'll marginally miss out.

Obviously Idk what sort of adv adjustments DoG is making... Do runs become more valuable in defeats coz your teammates have failed...? If yes, then Lara may indeed make it. If they get adjusted down because they were pretty irrelevant due to your team getting a hiding, then he won't..

No, runs do not become valuable, they were valuable coz you scored them when few of your other team mates could

 

[Days of Grace]

If you're looking for something to do you can clean my house ****.

This ugly ****'s back down from the trees to get his arse wiped again?

 

[centurymaker]

No runs do not become valuable, they were valuable coz you scored them when few of your other team mates could

Here's a scenario

Aus 550/5 dec
WI 250 all out
WI 250 all out again -- Lara 110

Is that 110 then seen as something a little more than 110 runs (after adjustments) because you team-mates sucked or does it as count less than 110 runs since you got a hiding and it was pretty irrelavant in the end. (assuming all else constant like strength of oppositon etc).

Let's say in the 550 Aus got, Ponting scored 110 as well. Would that 110 be worth more or less....(you won but all your team-mates were gunning it as well).

Things like that is what I am curious about

 

[centurymaker]

If Ponting's 110 is worth more than Lara's 110 and by some margin, then Lara won't make it IMO and Ponting and Waugh probably will.

 

[NUFAN]

If Ponting's 110 is worth more than Lara's 110 and by some margin, then Lara won't make it IMO and Ponting and Waugh probably will.

I doubt Ponting's would be worth more all things considered. You just look at the innings which have been considered 'great innings' and its very often one guy standing out. It also depends at what score Lara came out to bat. If he's in at 2-94 I believe his rating wont be as high as if he comes out to bat at 2-11.

The only thing which I have noticed so far is that its beneficial to be in a team that is capable of bowling out the opposition and winning matches. Inzi's first great innings of 75 wouldn't have been so great if NZ had of chased the 127 runs required.

 

[Days of Grace]

18. Allan Border (Australia) (1978-1994)

Career Length (Days): 5565
Percentage of team's matches played: 99%
Career Average: 50.56
Adjusted career average: 50.44
Adjusted away average: 56.23 (rank 7)
Adjusted top-opposition average: 48.60
Top Tier centuries: 4
Second tier centuries: 9
Third tier centuries: 13
Significant innings: 45 (rank 9th=)
Significant innings per match: 0.29

Great innings: 7 (rank 5th=)
1st Test: England v Australia at Nottingham, Jun 18-21, 1981 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.16
2nd Test: West Indies v Australia at Port of Spain, Mar 16-21, 1984 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.30 & 13.46
2nd Test: England v Australia at Lord's, Jun 27-Jul 2, 1985 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.57
1st Test: Australia v New Zealand at Brisbane, Nov 8-12, 1985 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.32
2nd Test: Australia v India at Melbourne, Dec 26-30, 1985 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 16.83
2nd Test: New Zealand v Australia at Christchurch, Feb 28-Mar 4, 1986 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 12.83 (1st Inns)


Innings worth average: 3.31

25 Test peak adjusted average: 66.67 (1982-1985)
50 Test peak adjusted average: 61.02 (1982-1988)

Quality Points: 578
Career Points: 129
Peak Points: 135
TOTAL POINTS: 841

It says a lot about Allan Border that 6 of his great innings came in 23 matches between the years 1984-1986 when Australia was at one of its lowest ebbs. Not many other teams in the history of the game relied as constantly on one batsman as Australia did on Border in those years. Unfortunately for Border, the flipside of the coin is that not many of his great innings resulted in victory for his team, hence his low significant innings per match count. If he played in a more successful team, he may have been nudging the top 10 in this list. But then again, he wouldn't be the Allan Border that we all know and appreciate.

 

[Days of Grace]

Guys, is anyone interested in helping me out to take this project to the next level, i.e. incorporating innings by innings data to make it more accurate?

PM me if you are. I would really appreciate it.

 

[honestbharani]

I doubt Ponting's would be worth more all things considered. You just look at the innings which have been considered 'great innings' and its very often one guy standing out. It also depends at what score Lara came out to bat. If he's in at 2-94 I believe his rating wont be as high as if he comes out to bat at 2-11.

The only thing which I have noticed so far is that its beneficial to be in a team that is capable of bowling out the opposition and winning matches. Inzi's first great innings of 75 wouldn't have been so great if NZ had of chased the 127 runs required.

yeah.. if Ponting got a 110 out of 550 it could also mean he just gunned it against an easier bowling attack and Lara roughed it out against a tougher attack on the last day or two of the test when no one else from his team could get anywhere near that kind of a score.. Pretty obvious why Ponting's WON'T rank higher IMO..

 

[centurymaker]

Another thing I have just thougth about-

What if lara's team-mates are truly **** and thats why they got bowled out for 250 in both inninge and instead If he had had partners like Ponting's, then his innings wouldn't have really stood out.
So basically does the thing take into account the strength of batting-line ups as well...

Let's replace Wi with India and Lara with Dravid..

would Dravid's effort of 110 out of a total of 250 be rated higher than Lara's effort of 110 in exactly same circumstances etc because Dravid is part of a strong line-up

 

[honestbharani]

Another thing I have just thougth about-

What if lara's team-mates are truly **** and thats why they got bowled out for 250 in both inninge and instead If he had had partners like Ponting's, then his innings wouldn't have really stood out.
So basically does the thing take into account the strength of batting-line ups as well...

Let's replace Wi with India and Lara with Dravid..

would Dravid's effort of 110 out of a total of 250 be rated higher than Lara's effort of 110 in exactly same circumstances etc because Dravid is part of a strong line-up

Actually, I would say the opposite.. If a DRavid did that, it means the bowling attack was probably that bit stronger than what Lara faced because even a better quality line up like India's could not face them.. Not sure if the relative strengths of the batting line up can be factored into ratings though.. It is too much of a variable to even attempt to quantify.

 

[centurymaker]

yeah.. if Ponting got a 110 out of 550 it could also mean he just gunned it against an easier bowling attack and Lara roughed it out against a tougher attack on the last day or two of the test when no one else from his team could get anywhere near that kind of a score.. Pretty obvious why Ponting's WON'T rank higher IMO..

No man, we were assuming that the two teams had equal strength bowling line-ups and in reality they sort of did too more or less.

Ambrose, Walsh vs McG/warne

Maybe it is mainly just down to bowling form-- how the bowlers bowled in that particular match (based obviously on just stats)

 

[centurymaker]

There's always two ways of looking at things haha! Stats really have a serious limitation

Did the bowlers bowl well or did the batsmen just crumble...

 

[Dissector]

Is Border the first to score two great innings in the same test?

 

[benchmark00]

Guys, is anyone interested in helping me out to take this project to the next level, i.e. incorporating innings by innings data to make it more accurate?

PM me if you are. I would really appreciate it.

PM sent.

 

[Days of Grace]

Is Border the first to score two great innings in the same test?

Laxman did at Kolkata in 2001.

 

[Pothas]

centurymaker stop clogging up the thread.

 

[Expressway76]

I'd be interested to know how Atherton's legendary innings in this match is rated:

2nd Test: South Africa v England at Johannesburg, Nov 30-Dec 4, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo