Does anyone think Australia's situation is not actually that dire?

[hendrix]

He averaged 38 with the ball in the series and thats strongly changed by that one innings, without it he would've averaged 70. Not great stats at a spinners paradise. Look how well ashwin and jadeja went compared to him.

His average is also strongly changed by Dhoni having a blinder and destroying all bowling to post a double century in the first test. The point being that you can't discount his good performances to point out his poor performances.

Also, Lyon did not have the luxury of bowling to Australia's batting lineup. I could point out plenty of poor tests by Ashwin against the English.

 

[cameronryan123]

His average is also strongly changed by Dhoni having a blinder and destroying all bowling to post a double century in the first test. The point being that you can't discount his good performances to point out his poor performances.

Also, Lyon did not have the luxury of bowling to Australia's batting lineup. I could point out plenty of poor tests by Ashwin against the English.

Fair poin mate. But I just can't see the need for him to be honest. If we're going to pick any spinner, why did we get rid of Hauritz? Just about the same averages with the ball and actually was getting some runs too. I don't rate Hauritz either but there seems a little bit more upside with him being in the side. I'd rather no spinner if they were the best choices but if we had to, Hauritz would be my choice.

 

[Daemon]

His average is also strongly changed by Dhoni having a blinder and destroying all bowling to post a double century in the first test. The point being that you can't discount his good performances to point out his poor performances.

Also, Lyon did not have the luxury of bowling to Australia's batting lineup. I could point out plenty of poor tests by Ashwin against the English.

You mean the largely similar lineup that was dominated by Swann and Monty?

Agree with the first paragraph though, he was really really bad for 3 tests and finally clicked in one. It's annoying when people talk about the first or the last in isolation just to suit their agenda. You can't bag Johnson for serving up pies with the occasional brilliance then ignore the same trend when it comes to Lyon.

That said he had no business being dropped for Agar of course.

 

[NUFAN]

I'm not saying don't pick him for this exact test, but generally I wouldn't play a spinner unless conditions warranted it.

That's fair enough. I sort of agree at times, especially if Smith is one of our six best batsman. We could then play Starc, Siddle, Harris and Bird together with some spin from Smith and Warner. BUT the main disclaimer with what you said is 'unless conditions warrant it' and its quite clear England has been drier this year compared to other years and spin, especially at Lords was important and it should be at Manchester too.

 

[Tangles]

The pitches are dry and will take spin. Lyon has to play in front of Agar unless your a selector.

 

[Top_Cat]

Will say it's interesting that Lyon has been going for roughly 4+/over in most games for the past year or so. I remember when he was being smashed by everyone prior to the Tests against SA this last summer and wondered how much of Mallett's advice he'd taken on-board. Rowdy wrote a column suggesting he was too wide on the crease so guys could take him down the ground if he bowls full and cut anything vaguely short and, from what I've seen of his bowling in the last year, still seems to be the case in general.

Without checking, I'd guess he's not being milked but blokes are just being patient and waiting for that one or two an over they can whack, hence the high RPO. In between the boundaries, some of what he's sending down looks quite dangerous so I guess he's still putting it all together as an offie. Will need to be taken into account when picking him, even on a turning deck.

 

[hendrix]

Fair poin mate. But I just can't see the need for him to be honest. If we're going to pick any spinner, why did we get rid of Hauritz? Just about the same averages with the ball and actually was getting some runs too. I don't rate Hauritz either but there seems a little bit more upside with him being in the side. I'd rather no spinner if they were the best choices but if we had to, Hauritz would be my choice.

Yeah I didn't really see the case for Hauritz being dropped.

Dropping Lyon for Agar in the first test was such insanity from the selectors. Even had it worked you still destroy the confidence of Lyon. Now that it hasn't worked, both bowlers havelost any confidence they may have built up.

It just really looks like they have no idea what they're doing.

Will say it's interesting that Lyon has been going for roughly 4+/over in most games for the past year or so. I remember when he was being smashed by everyone prior to the Tests against SA this last summer and wondered how much of Mallett's advice he'd taken on-board. Rowdy wrote a column suggesting he was too wide on the crease so guys could take him down the ground if he bowls full and cut anything vaguely short and, from what I've seen of his bowling in the last year, still seems to be the case in general.
.

seems like it would be a relativly easy fix, but...

 

[outbreak]

lyon is a perfectly decent spinner considering what else Australia have. I was a bit perplexed when they took Agar, thought he must have been turning them miles or something for them to have made that move. Hauritz wasn't terrible either but was just unfortunate to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when people were calling for us to get a great spinner in. Now they realise we don't have anyone in domestic cricket knocking the door down who's any better. For me though they should have bought in O'Keefe, he can bowl as well as any of these guys and bat a bit too. Has better leadership skills too

 

[Maximas]

SOK should've been been back in the 2010/11 Ashes, still can't believe Doherty got picked, I'm certain he has upset the selectors somehow.

 

[Tangles]

Yes. Bring in the SOK.

 

[Spark]

His average is also strongly changed by Dhoni having a blinder and destroying all bowling to post a double century in the first test. The point being that you can't discount his good performances to point out his poor performances.

Also, Lyon did not have the luxury of bowling to Australia's batting lineup. I could point out plenty of poor tests by Ashwin against the English.

Also had to contend with Wade keeping as well.

 

[Tangles]

Also had to contend with Wade keeping as well.

If Warne had to deal with Wade keeping what are the odds he would deck him mid over? Evens?

 

[cameronryan123]

it's sad to think our coach could probably do a better job than our current batsmen

 

[the big bambino]

Play 11 fast bowlers.

 

[Goughy]

Play 11 fast bowlers.

Would Watson get the openers gig?

 

[NUFAN]

1 Watson
2 Agar
3 McDonald
4 Faulkner
5 Copeland+
6 Johnson
7 Starc
8 Siddle
9 Harris
10 Bird
11 Lyon

 

[MW1304]

You forgot Pattinson.

 

[NUFAN]

I'm totally getting confused now who is aware that Patto is out injured and who isn't. I can't wait for the Test to start, its crazy how it feels like ages since we've had a Test - I'm so used to back to back matches these days.

 

[MW1304]

Sorry I was debuting a new meme.

 

[Burgey]

You mean the largely similar lineup that was dominated by Swann and Monty?

Agree with the first paragraph though, he was really really bad for 3 tests and finally clicked in one. It's annoying when people talk about the first or the last in isolation just to suit their agenda. You can't bag Johnson for serving up pies with the occasional brilliance then ignore the same trend when it comes to Lyon.

That said he had no business being dropped for Agar of course.

He bowled poorly I. The first test, was dropped for the second and by the fourth took a seven-fer.

I dunno, I don't think that's a particularly bad performance for a 24 year old offie on his first tour of India. At least he seemed to learn and adapt his bowling to the conditions.

I hope he plays. As you said, he was treated very poorly IMO, being dropped for the first test of this series