*Official* Third Test at Old Trafford

[Top_Cat]

Thetes something in this I think. If there were more secure options up front, Watson could bat six and basically be given a licence to thump the **** out of the ball, without having to worry too much. Sadly that's not the case and they've spent more time trying to work out his best place rather than whether he's truly worthy of a place at all.

Maybe but it's worth noting that Watson was, at one stage, averaging 50 with the bat in FC cricket. He hit a double in a Shield final and was hitting big tons against everyone so everyone picked him as a batting genius in the Lehmann, Hayden, etc. manner. Problem is that he had the same big pads back then too and I reckon he's just been found out as well as being mis-managed.

Watson's a poster-boy for what happens when you get everything you want rather than what you deserve. All of the second-tier genius' of the 90's (Lehmann, Law, Hayden, Cox, etc.) had big technical flaws too but they worked their arses off to minimise them and evolve as batsmen. Watto's batting looks identical to how he was batting 10 years ago.

 

[the big bambino]

Watson's stats are the reverse of Clarke. He has only ever scored enough runs to justify a spot as opener. The lower he goes in the order the worse his stats. The complaint that he only scores 30 or 40 at the top is therefore no justification to locate him at 6 where he'll produce even less. He is at least scoring as many as opener as anyone else and his technical failings are no worse than Hughes or Cowan.

So you have to make a decn on Watson. Are his numbers good enough to retain his spot? What else does he bring/take from the team? His form is crap. But in the context of this side good enough. To offset his negative influence on the team he can bowl. We'll need that given our fast bowlers' inclination to break down. We might just need him for OT given that Harris is good odds to break down in the middle of that game. I'll be holding my breath...

I'm all for renovating Watson's position in the side. I don't think we can just yet: Patience my pretties. So if you're going to play him put him where he's likely to do most good. He opens.

 

[NUFAN]

If we have Siddle and Bird in our attack who are both durable bowlers, plus Smith in the top 6, Watson's bowling isn't as important as it is in other attacks. Sure, at Manchester he will still bowl, but I don't think its that big a reason to keep him in our XI, we would be picking him for his ability to continue looking good and somehow not getting out LBW for under 50 again.

 

[Adders]

He has only ever scored enough runs to justify a spot as opener. The lower he goes in the order the worse his stats. The complaint that he only scores 30 or 40 at the top is therefore no justification to locate him at 6 where he'll produce even less.

I'm not sure about that though. In his early career as a middle order batsman he was pretty bloody ordinary granted, he then came back in 2009 as just a temporary makeshift opener and did pretty well for 18 months - 2 years. Is it the batting position that suited or did he just mature and come back a better batsmen?? What's to say if he came back in 2009 at No6 he wouldn't have had similar success??

After that decent little period he went to **** again and then got shuffled around the order......I know the stats say he scores more runs at the top but I'm not convinced it has anything to do with where he bats but just his form at the time.

What I do know is that ideally what you want from opener is to chew up time, and once they are in, have the mental fortitude to go on with it. Twattos ***y looking 30 - 40's would be welcomed at 6, they don't cut it at the top though.

 

[Spikey]

Adam Mountford ‏@tmsproducer 2m
England name a 14 man squad for the 3rd #Ashes squad including Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar and James Taylor. Steve Finn dropped #bbcsport

 

[Riggins]

i hope they play panesar.

 

[Adders]

i hope they play panesar.

Won't happen, great to see Tremlett's name in the squad even if he ends up carrying the drinks.

 

[Riggins]

if he plays, his body vs. harris' could be intriguing.

 

[King Pietersen]

Interesting. Bit harsh on Finn I reckon, but pleased to see Tremlett get a go. They'll play the same XI though, unless KP's crocked, and then Jimmy Taylor'll come. Hopefully he'll bag a ton if he does play and that'll be the end of Bairstow.

 

[Adders]

Hopefully he'll bag a ton if he does play and that'll be the end of Bairstow.

Funny, I think the same about Bairstow but I do wonder if we are maybe being a bit harsh on the lad........3rd highest run scorer for the series after all.

As for Finn, yeah it is harsh on him and I do wonder what this will do to his confidence. If they do go with the same 11 it wouldn't have hurt to keep Finn in the squad and around the team (unless he's got some worthwhile cricket to play) I love Tremlett and am delighted to see him back in the frame but we need to accept that Finn is the future and this is a critical time in his development.

 

[Howe_zat]

Adam Mountford ‏@tmsproducer 2m
England name a 14 man squad for the 3rd #Ashes squad including Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar and James Taylor. Steve Finn dropped #bbcsport

score

 

[Tangles]

Tbf Bairstow looks like a walking wicket. Happy to see him walking out.

 

[MW1304]

Still don't really see what Tremlett has done to get his place back yet, it seems too soon. Onions royally shafted etc.

 

[Adders]

Onions royally shafted etc.

Are you Scaly in disguise.....
Are you Scaly, in disguise

 

[MW1304]

'Twas my purpose, ol' Adders.

 

[the big bambino]

What's to say if he came back in 2009 at No6 he wouldn't have had similar success??

After that decent little period he went to **** again and then got shuffled around the order......I know the stats say he scores more runs at the top but I'm not convinced it has anything to do with where he bats but just his form at the time.

What I do know is that ideally what you want from opener is to chew up time, and once they are in, have the mental fortitude to go on with it. Twattos ***y looking 30 - 40's would be welcomed at 6, they don't cut it at the top though.

As to the highlighted; I don't know. Neither does anyone. He was groomed by Chappell to open. That's where he ended up and its where he scored all his runs. Look, I can't accept speculation over proven stats. He doesn't cut it lower down and that is a sounder basis for speculating his likely contribution at 6 than your alternative reality scenario. I don't find Watson's 30s ***y. They don't cut it anywhere in the order. But we will need him if Harris breaks down. Siddle and Bird have had their injury issues and are likely to breakdown themselves if they are forced to carry Harris' workload. So Watson's bowling helps them too. The logic says he plays and opens.

 

[grecian]

Funny, I think the same about Bairstow but I do wonder if we are maybe being a bit harsh on the lad........3rd highest run scorer for the series after all.

As for Finn, yeah it is harsh on him and I do wonder what this will do to his confidence. If they do go with the same 11 it wouldn't have hurt to keep Finn in the squad and around the team (unless he's got some worthwhile cricket to play) I love Tremlett and am delighted to see him back in the frame but we need to accept that Finn is the future and this is a critical time in his development.

Nah, good move this, Finn needs to work on his run-up and get some game time for Middlesex. Better this for his development then carrying drinks or getting carted IMHO.

 

[uvelocity]

As to the highlighted; I don't know. Neither does anyone. He was groomed by Chappell to open. That's where he ended up and its where he scored all his runs. Look, I can't accept speculation over proven stats. He doesn't cut it lower down and that is a sounder basis for speculating his likely contribution at 6 than your alternative reality scenario. I don't find Watson's 30s ***y. They don't cut it anywhere in the order. But we will need him if Harris breaks down. Siddle and Bird have had their injury issues and are likely to breakdown themselves if they are forced to carry Harris' workload. So Watson's bowling helps them too. The logic says he plays and opens.

thats a ridiculous assertion in the context of your discussion with addsy bearing in mind he can't bat in two places at once. fwiw i don't think there is anything about opening (bar not seeing spin first up) that advantages shane cankerson

 

[Maximas]

thats a ridiculous assertion in the context of your discussion with addsy bearing in mind he can't bat in two places at once. fwiw i don't think there is anything about opening (bar not seeing spin first up) that advantages shane cankerson

hard fast ball and aggressive fields, plus it's a position where a start is of most value to the side, so if he always gets starts then he sort of gets away with not converting (sort of), might just be a mindset thing though.

 

[the big bambino]

thats a ridiculous assertion in the context of your discussion with addsy bearing in mind he can't bat in two places at once. fwiw i don't think there is anything about opening (bar not seeing spin first up) that advantages shane cankerson

What? Genuinely amazed you read that into what I said. To clarify: No I don't believe Watson should bat in 2 places at once to disprove whatever you think I said.